Likkutei Sichos, Vol. 3: Parshas Vayechi (Part 7)
Why throwing Yosef into a snake pit wasn't legally the same as killing him, and what the shevatim's status as bnei Noach had to do with it.
Part of Likkutei Sichos: Volume 3 - Vayechi · 29:04
Works through the halachic force of testifying that someone fell into a pit of snakes and scorpions, and how far "rov" has to reach before a wife can remarry on that testimony. Uses that to unpack why Reuven's plan wasn't simple murder: since the shevatim held the status of bnei Noach rather than bnei Yisrael, the usual rule of following the majority didn't bind them. Closes by tracing that same machloket — Yosef versus his brothers over eating a limb from a still-living animal — back to the deeper question of whether they were bnei Noach or already bnei Yisrael.
Audio Transcript
We're holding in the last page, page 838. And the last inyan that we were discussing in the sicha was בנוגע what Reuven said to his brothers: Don't touch him, don't hurt him, just throw him into the pit. And the question was, what's the difference? If the pit was full of נחשים ועקרבים, snakes and scorpions, so this was a this was a guaranteed death anyway, as the din is that when you see somebody fall into a pit of snakes and scorpions, you could testify that this person died, and his wife could remarry. So, it's vadai. So, the Rebbe said the pshat is, they thought that he's חייב מיתה, and Reuven told them that why kill him yourself? Put him in the place where על פי... where where you will leave him in the hands of Hashem. And if Hashem wants to kill him, he'll kill him. Because if you touch him, then maybe he's not even חייב מיתה. איי, how would Hashem allow us to kill him? We are baalei bechira. We have free choice. So, the fact that you'll kill him will not be the... is not 100% true that it's the right thing. So, you throw him in, so if Hashem will want, he'll kill... he'll die if he deserves it, and if Hashem wants, he'll make a nes. That's as far as we went. So, we're holding here in the second column, 838, in the middle. האָטש על פי תורה, the Rebbe is going to ask a she'eilah: what kind of answer did we say? That they said, don't throw him... throw him in, then you're not really killing him, and you're leaving it in the hands of Shamayim. Yeah, but what kind of... that that itself is a problem. Yeah, is... so really what he did what didn't help much. That's that's the... that's part of the kashya. Nu, every day? You're looking over there. Somebody told me the other day, it was... I don't know, I was talking in shul at a farbrengen, I was saying it. The story the Rebbe said that you... when you talk you should always know it means me, don't think it means somebody else. So someone says he remembers that farbrengen the Rebbe spoke about this inyan, how you have to realize that don't think it means some- it means you, and he was standing next to two yungeleit, and as the Rebbe finished the sicha, one guy turns around to the other, the other guy turned around: \"You see... You heard what the Rebbe said to you?\" Anyway, so the she'eilah the Rebbe is going to ask now is, since על פי הלכה it's considered dead, that means על פי דרך הטבע, a person who falls into a pit like that is dying. So, we're back to the question, actually: so what did Reuven gain? He's also saying throw him in, that means you're killing him. Let's learn inside. האָטש על פי תורה, even though על פי הלכה, על פי תורה, איז על פי טבע בשעת א מענטש פאלט אריין אין א גרוב פון נחשים ועקרבים ווערט ער געטייט, על פי טבע. Torah says that על פי טבע if someone falls in, he's considered dead, because he certainly died. And the Torah says that. Not only we look around and we see physically that's what happens, the תורה פסקנט על פי הלכה like that. ווי דערמאנט פריער, we said before, that על פי דין, if you testify that's what happened, Torah says his wife could remarry because he's dead. נאך מער קען מען זאגן, we could say even more, דער דין תורה אז מעידין איז נישט סתם א כלל פון לילך בתר רובא. Whenever you could testify testify on a certain case that mistama he died because in most cases, if this happens, the person dies. מיר גייען לויט'ן רוב, we go according to the majority, וואס מערסטנס ווערט דער מענטש געטויט אין אזא פאל. In most cases, a person would die in such a situation. נאר מצד דער חומרא פון אשת איש, so, we always go בתר רובא, we always follow the majority. But because this issur of אשת איש, a married woman to remarry is such a terrible עבירה, דארף עס זיין אזא רוב אז דער מיעוט איז אפילו נישט קיין מיעוט דלא שכיח. It has to be a very strong rov. But they're saying here like this: normally we go בתר רובא. How much is rov? How much percentage is rov? 51%. That's rov. By the איסור אשת איש, the Chachamim said you can't testify on somebody that something happened to him in a case where most people would die in such a case. It's not enough. We have to be even more sure. Cuz there is there there is a rov, a miut, which is the minority, a מיעוט דשכיח and a מיעוט דלא שכיח. When you have 51% versus 49%, is the 49% considered shachiach? What does shachiach mean? Common. Is 49% considered common? Yeah, it's not always, it's not rov, but it's still common. So, anything that a person would say on a man that he saw something happened to him, and rov situations this person would have died, you cannot testify and his wife should remarry. Because the miut is a מיעוט דשכיח, even though it's only a miut that he's to survive, but it's common. The Chachamim wanted that this should be When do you allow her to marry? If most cases he would die, and not stam most, what we would call sometimes rova drova. Rova drova is not 51%. Rova drova is pretty close to 100%, like 90%. Why? Cuz then if it's 90%, then the little bit that shayach is not to be is very small. It's לא שכיח. So, if the Chachamim said that you're allowed to testify on a man that he died by seeing him fall into a pit of snakes and scorpions, what does that show? That not only in rov cases mistama a person would die, 51%, in 90% a person would die. It's rov so much that it's a מיעוט דלא שכיח. So, this basically makes the kashya even stronger. So, what did Reuven gain by saying throwing him into the pit? \"Don't kill him, throw him into the pit.\" Because על פי תורה, throwing him into a pit with snakes means killing him. Because 90% or 95%, whatever the amount, the number is, he would die על פי טבע. Umimeila, so, he didn't gain anything because he's still telling him, almost like saying What's the chiluk if you kill a guy by shooting him, or killing him a guy killing a guy by throwing him into the You're killing him. You're doing the same thing. Because what happens if you put him on a person, take a person and put him out in front of a lion? You killed him. So, what did Reuven gain? So, the Rebbe says: אבער נישט אז עס איז א נס ממש שינוי הטבע. It's not a נס, נאר בלשון בני אדם זאגט מען עס ווערט אזוי אנגערופן דורך מענטשן אפילו אויך בלשון חכמים. So, this is not the answer yet. This is still about the kashya. So, for a person not to die in such a case is almost like a nes. Not mamash a nes, but to a person to fall into a pit of snakes and scorpions is not something that could happen. Even though we will not call it a nes, but it's still something that's very, very far from metziut. So, what did Reuven gain? Yeah? But a get, a nes is something that's against nature. The scorpion, it says in the Shulchan Aruch that you're allowed to move even if the scorpion's nes, that's something else, yeah. For sure going to attack you. For sure. Not for sure, but that's But it's very possible, right. So, if you're the only person in the in the pit, it's going to attack you. Yeah, that's what the Rebbe says. We don't To survive doesn't mean that it's possible. Possible, punkt that the scorpion wasn't hungry. I mean, it's there's a possibility. It's not like something that must happen, and there's no other way. But it is like we would say 99% that it'll happen. So, if it doesn't happen, it's not called a nes. But it's pretty close to a nes. Like he says, בלשון בני אדם, we would call it a nes. Uh? No, he's asking it's a good שאלה בכלל if they saw that happened to him, that means they saw he's a great tzadik. So, why do they they still do this? Didn't change their mind, they still thought he's חייב מיתה. He's a tzadik that's חייב מיתה. No, I mean it's No, it's this is one of those things that's very hard to understand. You see, when the Rebbe here is asking a she'elah in sechel, what's the sevara here? Bichlal there are certain story certain parts in the story of sale sale of Yosef which doesn't make any sense. It's not a kashya. Brothers, such people, this is, it's it's Obviously, this is רוחניותדיקע ענינים. Okay, but legabei this she'elah, the she'elah is a good she'elah, needs a be'ur. That's not a she'elah specifically on this sichah, that's a she'elah that's a sevara. So the answer the Rebbe gives is וויבאלד אבער סוף סוף קען עס אמאל פאסירן, but since after all it's possible to happen, very, very rare, but it's possible to happen. און פון דעסטוועגן רעכנט מען זיך נישט מיט דער מעגלעכקייט, איז דאך דאס אלץ אלס דעם כלל אז אזלינן בתר רובא. Says sof kol sof, when we say that you're allowed to testify that he died if he fell into a pit, it still remains because of rov. The Rebbe said it's sevara, but it's not only rov, it's rov which is very close to to almost 100%. But that's still only rov. And what do we gain so it's only rov? And the din by rov is, he says, און ביי יוסף איז דאך כמה דעות אז די שבטים האבן געהאט א דין פון בני נח, and the second thing, ביי בני נח איז ניטא דער דין פון רוב. That's the answer. Since after all, this din that he's definitely going to die, or 99% he's going to die, comes sof kol sof from rov, by goyim there's no din of rov, we don't go בתר רובא by goyim. And since Yeah. Rodef is stam by goyim also. Rodef. And since this is מצד רוב, by בני נח, by goyim there's no דין רוב. And the the shevatim had a din of בני נח. Not a din of Bnei Yisrael. So there was no din of אזלינן בתר רובא that you follow rov. Mimela in this case Reuven said, since there's a possibility of 1%, it's still not considered that it's vadai, and if you throw him in, it's not considered that we killed him. Because we don't go בתר רוב. The only reason we consider by that you killed him if it would be a yid, and in most cases a person like this would die, so that means you killed him. But since we're בני נח, it's not like that. Yeah, so what's the answer to the she'eila? What's the answer to the question of why the Reuven said that? It's killing him. Throwing into a pit is just like killing. Definitely die. Levi. So what's the answer? Yeah, what did you say the answer is? And therefore, but 1% is very little. Yeah, but can you can we rely on 1%? Don't we go בתר רוב? Always we go בתר רוב. That means that we disregard this small percent. Only Rabbi Rabbi Meir is חייש למיעוטא, Rabbi Meir cares about the miut, and even he למיעוטא דמיעוטא לא חייש. If it's so small, he doesn't care. He doesn't It's not considered anything. So here the fact that he might stay alive is not considered really. So what's the answer? Nu, what's the point here? The last point. Huh? Good, but it's still rov, nu so? But it's מצד רוב? So nu nu, so why don't we go בתר רוב and say that's called killing? Oh, that's the point! Because they had a דין of בני נח. And by goyim, by בני נח there is no דין of רוב. As long as it's not 100%, it's no דין of רוב. And they had a דין of בני נח. Who says they had a דין of בני נח? So you see the מראה מקומות here, 49 says What is Who's the sefer it says they have a דין of בני נח? Who's that? Well could you read 49? It's a sefer called Parshat Derachim. Who wrote the sefer? The Mishneh LaMelech. And Parshat Derachim is a whole sefer, a whole sefer dealing with this one subject. Whether the shevatim had a דין of בני נח or the shevatim had a דין of בני ישראל. Huh? How many pages? 200 pages must be. And they did they have a whole he has a whole and he says that they had a דין of בני נח. The avos the avos and the shevatim are the same category. Yeah, the avos had a דין of בני נח, didn't have a דין of בני ישראל. Cuz even though קיימו כל התורה כולה עד שלא ניתנה, they kept the Torah, but they weren't מחוייב. They kept it on their own, but they weren't מחוייב, cuz they had a דין of בני נח.
It's one of the interesting things, they ask: a goy is not allowed to keep Shabbos. So how did the Avos keep Shabbos? Ela mai, you'll say they didn't, but it says קיימו כל התורה כולה, they kept the whole Torah, so they kept Shabbos. And a goy is גוי ששבת what's the end? חייב מיתה. So how did they keep Shabbos? They're not allowed to, as Bnei Noach. And so how do you say they kept the whole Torah when if they didn't keep Shabbos, which they had to not keep Shabbos, but they didn't keep the Shabbos, though? No, they're not keeping Shabbos, that's that's מחלל שבת. Ela mai, they had to מחלל שבת. You can't say they kept it. There's no aveirah on their part, cuz they didn't have to, but I'm saying, but we're saying a fact, the fact is they kept the whole Torah, but they didn't. So there's a famous answer. So that's not keeping. If someone is pikuach nefesh he's not keeping Shabbos, or this... What? So the answer is they wore the tzitzit on Shabbos. For a Yid who's מחוייב בציצית, it's not called carrying because it's his beged. A goy who's not מחוייב בציצית and he wears it, it's considered carrying. Because a goy, in order to be מחלל שבת, not to be שומר שבת because he's not allowed to, has to do one little aveirah and then already he's yotzei. That's why takeh when people are looking to be mitgayer, and they train them first before they become gerim, they train them, so one of the things they do is we want them to keep Shabbos for months and months before to see that they know how to keep Shabbos. But a goy is not allowed to keep Shabbos. So they tell him: Turn on the switch, a minute before the shekiah turn on the switch of the light. So you should be mekayem the chiyuv that you have as you are now, because now you have a chiyuv to be מחלל שבת, not to keep Shabbos. So here, one second, so what did they do? So they wore tallit katan. Wearing a tallit katan, so if looking at it from the Yid part of them, they weren't מחלל... they they they're keeping Shabbos because from the Yid's perspective this is not חילול שבת, looking at it from the goy side, by the fact of בני נח they were מחלל שבת because they were carrying. Yeah. Should do it before the שקיעה? On Shabbos, no, it should be on Shabbos. No, Shabbos afternoon, I mean. That's what I mean. In other words, they You could do it right away. Huh? They have this joke: this goy this Yid, this bachur just found out that his geirut is no good and he's still a goy. So he went and and he carried carried on Shabbos and they said to him... You know, it was a joke. But there's an eruv! He says, ikh halt nisht fun an eruv, but I forget everybody... that's the joke, right? A goy halt nisht fun an eruv, that's not... Whatever it is, I don't remember. But the bottom line is that they the Avot had a דין The Avot and the שבטים had a דין of בני נח. There's another interesting thing he says there, this בנוגע the tzitzit I think R'' Yosef Engel writes, but the Parashat Derachim writes another interesting thing.
He writes one pshat that this was the machloket between Yosef and his brothers, whether they have a דין of goyim or a דין of Yidden. He explains it like this: What did Yosef give lashon hara to his father about his brothers? What did he say? One of the things he said, that they're eating אבר מן החי. So he says like this: אבר מן החי is asur also for goyim. As a matter of fact, אבר מן החי has a chumra by goyim over Yidden. Can anyone think of the case? Because bichlal there's nothing that a goy is more chamur, a Yid is more chamur. What do we have by by אבר מן החי גוים are more have a have a one chumra? Okay. That's That's It's called a בן פקועה. It's a בן פקועה. But what he says is like this: If you shachat the behemah and the behemah is still מפרכס, still shakes, are you allowed allowed to take off a piece and eat from it? It's אבר מן החי, the behemah is still alive. So a goy, who is asur in אבר מן החי, can't do that. Ai, a Yid is also asur in אבר מן החי? But by a Yid there is a דין שחיטה. So the moment you shachat'ed it, it becomes mutar. So here we have a case where you shachat'ed it, and the second you shachat'ed it you want to take off a piece, a goy is asur, and a Yid is mutar. And this was the machloket between Yosef and his brothers. His brothers held they are they have a din of Bnei Yisrael. So they would do that, they would shachat and take off a piece. Yosef held they have a din of Bnei Noach, so Yosef ta'an't it's asur. So Yosef came to his brothers, to his father and said that my brothers eat אבר מן החי. According to him, they ate אבר מן החי. That's according to that peshat. You think it's the only, he says all When it comes to this, there's 100 peshatim like this and 100 peshatim like that. And this if you learn like this, you explain it like this, and like this, you have to explain it a different way. You have to find This is according to one of the peshatim. Why? They didn't care. Why not? They were the The pot was ready to be cooked, and they just cut off a piece and they had no reason to wait. They had no reason to wait. If you cut it off while it's alive, well obviously then it's dead. Don't eat it while it's alive. Cut To cut off a piece of a live animal and cook it and then eat it is אבר מן החי. And that's what they did. They shachat'ed it, and then they didn't have a reason to wait, because they held that you're allowed to, and he טענ'ט you have to wait, because he טענ'ט it's אבר מן החי. Oh, they got upset after he מסר'ed. They're three ta'anot. Truth is he explains all three ta'anot like that, so I don't remember what he says. He explain what are the other ta'anot? That עריות, and One second. Now what's the other one? עריות, and they used to call that they called the brothers בני שפחות. Reuven, Shimon, these, they called the other brothers who came from Bilhah and Zilpah, they make fun of them. So there's somehow he explains, and I just don't remember offhand now, that this is also connected to the machloket whether they have a din of Bnei Yisrael or Bnei Noach. So? No, what's what's the case that a Yid is a Yid is allowed, and a goy is not allowed? No, here we're saying the machloket is they did something which because they held that we are Yidden they were allowed to do it, and Yosef held that you are goyim, we have a din of goyim, mimeila you can't do it. What is there? Look, a Yid can't do that either. A goy can't do that either. No, he doesn't say that. So, and what happened? If they held they were Bnei Yisrael, then Yeah, then what? Then they can't. So why, we're saying farkert, they did something they thought they're allowed because they held they're Bnei Yisrael. You have to find something that Bnei Yisrael like a Bnei Noach No, if they're Bnei Yisrael, did they become gerim? Yeah, because they're not Bnei Yisrael. Right, they were not that they were מגייר. In a sichah, the Rebbe gives a different reason. The Rebbe doesn't accept the reason of geirus. Okay, by a sicha, the Rebbe says because he promised to marry her, so he had to keep his word. And he brings that shita with the with the geirus, but the Rebbe says it's not פשוטו של מקרא. A goy Yeah, it's not There's no yeah, it's only a lav on aseh. No, but not l'shem marriage. If you take her l'shem marriage. We're saying farkert. We're looking for something a Jew could and a goy can't. If they claimed we're Jews, so they did certain things which Yosef claimed, \"Because you're still a goy, you can't.\" Who is the Jews? Okay.
אויף דעם אויף דער גאולה העתידה שטייט, let's finish the שיחה, אויף דער גאולה העתידה it says כימי צאתך מארץ מצרים אראנו נפלאות. אויף דער גאולה העתידה it will be זיין ענלעך to the גאולה פון מצרים. The geulah of Mashiach will be similar to the geulah of Mitzrayim. דער עיקר דארף אויך איצט בעקבתא דמשיחא, ווי ביי יציאת מצרים, זיין אונזער עבודה, so now too, before Mashiach, when you're going out of this galut, our avodah has to be צו מברר זיין די סאמע לעצטע ניצוצות הקדושה וואס געפינען זיך למטה מטה. Just like over there they had to be mevarer the לעצטע ניצוצות הקדושה, and we said that's why Yosef was the one to connect them to the geulah, cuz he had the power to lower himself very low and take out the ניצוצות הקדושה from the lowest of the lowest, we have to do that too. איז דער כח אראפלאזן זיך אזוי נידעריק, so the koach to lower ourselves so low and קענען טאן די עבודת הבירורים, and to do this עבודת הבירורים, so in Mitzrayim who gave the koach? Yosef. And uns, who gave the koach, who gives the koach to uns? האט געגעבן דער רבי, נשיא דורנו. און דאס איז געווען די עבודה פון רבי'ן, cuz that was his avodah, כל הגבוה גבוה ביותר יורד למטה מטה ביותר. Since he was so high, he was able to lower himself so low. און דאס איז אויך אונזער עבודה, so it's not only his avodah, it's our avodah too. בתר רישא גופא אזיל, cuz the body follows the head. אונזער ארבעט דארף זיין צו נעמען די העכסטע ענינים. Our job is to take the highest ענינים, רזין דרזין דאורייתא. What does רזין mean? Secrets. The secrets of the secrets of Torah. What is רזין דרזין? First of all, רזין דאורייתא is Kabbalah, and רזין דרזין? Chassidus. Okay. און די מעינות מפיץ זיין למטה מטה ביז חוצה, to bring it down all the way low, till חוצה, to the outside. און דורך דעם מברר זיין די ניצוצות היותר אחרונים, through this we'll be mevarer the lowest and last nitzotzot. און דאס וועט ברענגען דעם קוסי מטה, למטה מעשרה טפחים, בקרוב ממש. This'll bring the coming of Mashiach.
So let's see before we go if there are a few הערות that we might be able to כאפ אריין, to learn. See, the Rebbe many times when he says things to say to people, the Rebbe said, זאג דאס בשמי, אדער שלא בשמי, ווי עס וועט שנעלער נתקבל ווערן. If you think it'll be nitkabel to tell people the Rebbe is a נשיא and it'll be נתקבל, אדרבה, מה טוב ומה נעים. If you know it's not going to be nitkabel, don't say it. You have to use, what can I tell you, you're asking a she'eilah, what kind of klal can I give you? You have to use your judgment, you have to use seichel. One of the great things is you have to have seichel, and they say that everyone knows that the Frierdiker Rebbe said, א חסידים זענען קלוגע. Chassidim are smart, and that's what it is, you have to have seichel to see when to say it and when not to say it. And you have a safek, you have a safek, what do you do? Now, if it's a safek he might accept it and might not accept it, who cares? Say it to him, he won't. If you have a safek he might accept it, or might angry and make it worse, so which safek is lechumra? Don't say it. It's a safek, maybe you'll tell him this, and maybe you'll make a chillul Hashem, or maybe you will have him say something negative on the Rebbe. So that's not worth such a safek. So you've got to use your judgment. But the Rebbe said clearly, זאג בשמי אדער שלא בשמי, whichever way it'll get נתקבל, the ענין איז אז עס זאל געכאפט ווערן. What did he try to do? He told the brothers he's going to be the king. No, it's his brothers, we're not talking. I know, but these are tzadikim, this isn't... So there he told them the truth. Okay.