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BAVA BASRA (IYUN)

Bava Basra 29aโ€“30a โ€” Iyun

How Long Do You Have to Protest Before Losing Your Claim?

Part of Bava Basra (Iyun)

Continues the Bava Basra sugya on chazakah, working through the three-year window for a valid protest and the excuses that can extend it.

Audio Transcript
Why the ื—ื›ืžื™ื instituted the ืชืงื ืช ื—ื›ืžื™ื

It's a ืชืงื ืช ื—ื›ืžื™ื for the benefit of both people. For the benefit of the person who moves in, that he shouldn't be bothered by having the ืฉื˜ืจ for more than three years. It's a big bother to keep your ืฉื˜ืจ. Those days, I mean, you have to be careful from mice and from all rotting, so they helped him out forever. The ื—ื›ืžื™ื also cared about the ืžืขืจืขืจ. What happens if a guy moves into someone's house and ืฉืœื ื›ื“ื™ืŸ, against the ื“ื™ืŸ? So they gave him an ืขืฆื”, too, make a ืžื—ืื”. You're here, make a ืžื—ืื”, so the ื—ื›ืžื™ื did it. So it's a ืชืงื ืช ื—ื›ืžื™ื for the betterment of the people, that's all it is. So he said that this is a ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช between the, so then pshat says a ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช between the ื ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ and the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ. According to the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ, we have a ืจืื™ื” that if the ืžื—ื–ื™ืง by the ืžื—ืื”, according to the ื ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ, it's not. According to this, what would be the ืฉื™ื˜ื” of the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ? We look in ืฉื•ืœื—ืŸ ืขืจื•ืš, the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ brings this ื“ื™ืŸ: ืื›ืœื” ื‘ืคื ื™ ื”ืื‘ ืฉื ื” ื•ื‘ืคื ื™ ื”ื‘ืŸ ืฉืชื™ื. If he had it, his father lived a year and the son two years, so he doesn't make a ื—ื™ืœื•ืง between a ืงื˜ืŸ and a ื’ื“ื•ืœ. He says even if the child is a ืงื˜ืŸ, this guy has a ื—ื–ืงื”. Now, if he says like that, it fits to the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ. That means he holds like the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ, that the ื—ื–ืงื” is right away because the the is right the ืจืื™ื” is right away because he should have made a ืžื—ืื” right away. Because if the ืจืื™ื” would be only after three years of not making a ืžื—ืื”, then if the two years were by a ืงื˜ืŸ, you can't count those two years. So from here we have a ืจืื™ื” that the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ learns, I mean that the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ learns like the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ. Wait, but why would have, why would a ืงื˜ืŸ have an obliga-, a ืงื˜ืŸ have an obliga-? He doesn't have. He ื˜ืืงืข doesn't. But the guy keeps it anyway because it's not the ืจืื™ื” that those two years didn't make a ืžื—ืื”, the ืจืื™ื” is from the first minute he didn't make a ืžื—ืื”. The only reason that you need wait for three years, because till then we have a ืจืื™ื” against you. You don't have to make a ืžื—ืื” to that ืงื˜ืŸ. See, that's right. So why so why the whole subject come up if there's a ืงื˜ืŸ? So can't someone claim for the ืงื˜ืŸ? No, I mean, don't have to. You can't blame. You could have from the first second that the ืžื—ืื” is best. Yeah, right, right. After three after three years, he gets it, right. So if someone else could come and take it show be take him to ื‘ื™ืช ื“ื™ืŸ. But if no one does anything for these three years, then he would keep it. Yeah. Someone have to come for the ืงื˜ืŸ. Yeah, someone would come, call him to ื‘ื™ืช ื“ื™ืŸ. The ืืคื•ื˜ืจื•ืคื•ืก, I know, could call him to ื‘ื™ืช ื“ื™ืŸ. The ืืคื•ื˜ืจื•ืคื•ืก, yeah. Look, but even if no ืžื—ืื” was made, according to other ืฉื™ื˜ื•ืช, since no even if no ืžื—ืื” was made, the ืžื—ื–ื™ืง doesn't keep it, because you can't blame them for not making a ืžื—ืื”. But according to the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ, the fact that we can't blame him doesn't we don't care, because it started when he didn't make a ืžื—ืื”, the original owner didn't make a ืžื—ืื”. And according to the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ, the ืจืื™ื” is from the first moment! From the first moment the father didn't make a ืžื—ืื”, the ืจืื™ื” is his, that's what the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ says. And obviously, we're saying that since the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ in ืฉื•ืœื—ืŸ ืขืจื•ืš ืคืกืงื ืก that there is no difference between a ืงื˜ืŸ and a ื’ื“ื•ืœ, so the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ follows the ื“ืจืš of the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ. So according to the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ, the ืžื—ืื” should have made been made the first should have been made the first minute. So, you mean before the father died, you mean. In this case, yeah. No, every case, when the before the father died, right. And from here we learn out not only in the case of the father died, from here we see for every normal case, where there is the same person, that the ื“ื™ืŸ of ืžื—ืื” is that a person should make a ืžื—ืื” right away. And the fact that he didn't make it right away, there is right away a ืจืื™ื” that it belongs to the ืžื—ื–ื™ืง. We won't give it to him, because we have a ืงื•ืฉื™ื, "Where is your ืฉื˜ืจ?" ื ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds that it's a ืชืงื ืช ื—ื›ืžื™ื. What's the ืชืงื ืช ื—ื›ืžื™ื? That for three years. So it comes out from here that there's a ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช between the ื ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ and the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ: what is the ื’ื“ืจ, the concept of the three years of ื—ื–ืงื”, according of of the ืžื—ืื” that's supposed to be in order to avoid the ื—ื–ืงื”? According to the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ, well, even though there are three years, it's only that you have a span of three years to be ืžื•ื—ื”, but really the ืžื—ืื” should be done right away. And if you didn't do it, you lost right away, but we gave you a chance, the second minute to do it, the next day to do it, so that... But if the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ says that the ืžื—ืื” is you should still do right away, so why why do they give you the three years for? That's what I don't understand. We gave you three years is because otherwise we have a ืงื•ืฉื™ื on him, "Where is your ืฉื˜ืจ?" ื˜ืืงืข after a minute, so now it's his, right, but what could be of a ืฉื˜ืจ? So till three years, we can't keep it for that reason. And because of that, we gave the guy a chance to be to make a ืžื—ืื” more times within the three years. But the original ื“ื™ืŸ of ืžื—ืื” is not that way. The original ื“ื™ืŸ of ืžื—ืื” according to the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ, according to the ืจืžื‘"ืŸ, is that you should do it immediately. So according to the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ, you have to do a ืžื—ืื” immediately. So according to the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ, the span of time is that originally you should do it right away, but you have a chance to do it later, do it later. According to the...

Threeโ€‘year window for ืžื—ืื” according to ื ื™ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ

but according to the ื ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ, he says that you ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” have a span of three years in order to do it. And that's where the ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช is here. Since the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds that ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” you have to do it right away, therefore, if you didn't do it right away, you're called a ืคื•ืฉืข. Even though later you were an ืื•ื ืก, but still, since ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” you could have done it, and you should have done it right away, and you didn't, you're a ืคื•ืฉืข, and the fact that later you didn't do it ื‘ืื•ื ืก, you're not called an ืื•ื ืก, you're called a ืคื•ืฉืข. And therefore, the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds that in the case over here, if ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” you were in a place where you could have made a ืžื—ืื”, and you didn't, and at the end you were in a place where you couldn't make a ืžื—ืื”, you're not called an ืื•ื ืก. You're called a ืคื•ืฉืข. But the ื ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds that you have ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” three years to make a ืžื—ืื”, so the span of time is not that you have to do it ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, and if not, you have time later, but you have ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” a chance to do it when you want throughout the three years. So here, even though ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” you had a chance to do it, and you didn't make the ืžื—ืื” ื‘ื›ื•ื•ื ื”, you were a ืคื•ืฉืข. But since at the end you were an ืื•ื ืก, you're considered an ืื•ื ืก. Ah, you could have done it ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, who said you had to do it ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, since the ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” of the time is that you have three years. And that's why according to the ื ื™ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ, if ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” you had a chance to do it, but you didn't, and at the end you were an ืื•ื ืก, you were ืื ื•ืก, you have a ื“ื™ืŸ of an ืื•ื ืก. So it comes out that the reason why here the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ and the ื ื™ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ argue is the same reason why they argue about ืชืคื™ืœื”, but in the opposite directions. By

ืชืคื™ืœื” debate: ืคื•ืฉืข vs ืื•ื ืก

ืชืคื™ืœื” we said that the ื ื™ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds it's a ืคื•ืฉืข, and the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds he's an ืื•ื ืก. And the reason is because by ืชืคื™ืœื” the the ื ื™ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds that the ืชื•ืจื” or the ื—ื›ืžื™ื gave you the ื–ืžืŸ of ืชืคื™ืœื”, they said ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” you have to do it right away. And if you didn't do it right away, you're a ืคื•ืฉืข. The fact that later you were an ืื•ื ืก, you're not called an ืื•ื ืก because the the time was ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” to be done. The only thing that they gave you those amount of hours is in case you didn't do it ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, you could do it later. So therefore, if you didn't do it ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, you're already a ืคื•ืฉืข. And the fact that you were an ืื•ื ืก later doesn't count. You're still a ืคื•ืฉืข. The ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds that by ืชืคื™ืœื” it's the opposite. That by ืชืคื™ืœื” ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” they gave you a certain amount of time. Not that you have to do it first minute, you could do it any time during the time. And therefore, if you didn't do it ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” ื‘ื›ื•ื•ื ื”, you were a ืคื•ืฉืข, but since you still had a chance to do it later and you were an ืื•ื ืก, you're considered an ืื•ื ืก. So therefore, ื‘ื ื•ื’ืข to ืชืคื™ืœื”, the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds in a case like this, you're called an ืื•ื ืก. If ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” you were a ืคื•ืฉืข, you left it for later, and later you were an ืื•ื ืก, you're called an ืื•ื ืก. And the ื ื™ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds that since you had to do it ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, you're called a ืคื•ืฉืข, even though later you were an ืื•ื ืก. When it comes to the ืงืจืงืข, just the opposite. By ืงืจืงืข, the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds that the time of the ืžื—ืื” is ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”. And therefore, if you didn't do it ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, you're called a ืคื•ืฉืข. Ah, later you were an ืื•ื ืก, too bad. ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” you should have done it, and you're called a ืคื•ืฉืข. The ื ื™ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds that the opposite. That by the ืžื—ืื” there is no ื“ื™ืŸ that you have to make a ืžื—ืื” right away. You could do it any time of the three years. So therefore, even though ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” you didn't do it ื‘ื›ื•ื•ื ื”, you did it ื‘ืคืฉื™ืขื”, but since you still could have done it later, and later wouldn't have been anything wrong, you still have the time to do it later. Therefore, if later you were an ืื•ื ืก, you're called an ืื•ื ืก. But if so, why does the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ write that according to the ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื it does fit? So we have to sit the ืคืฉื˜ like this: that according to the ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื, we see an interesting thing. The

ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื on excuses for missing ืžื—ืื”

ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื say that if his excuse was only that I didn't have a chance to make a ืžื—ืื”, it's acceptable. In other words, according to the ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื, even if he gives a weak reason, that reason is good enough for him why he didn't make a ืžื—ืื”. Which means that as long as it is not clear that the reason he didn't make a ืžื—ืื” was because it's not his, it's not called a ื—ื–ืงื”. When does the lack of making a ืžื—ืื” make the other guy have a ื—ื–ืงื”? If it's sure that the reason he didn't make a ืžื—ืื” was because it's not his. In other words, he has no excuse why he didn't make a ืžื—ืื”. The moment he has an excuse why he made a ืžื—ืื”, he didn't he didn't make the ืžื—ืื”, even though the excuse is a weak excuse, it's acceptable, and we don't hold it against him that he didn't make a ืžื—ืื”, ื•ืžืžื™ืœื the other guy doesn't have a ื—ื–ืงื”. That's what we see from the ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื, because the ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื say that the excuse of not having time is acceptable that it doesn't work against him, the fact that he didn't make a ืžื—ืื”, because he has a small excuse, and the other guy's ื—ื–ืงื” is no ื—ื–ืงื”. Now if you learn that way, in this case, where the guy didn't make a ืžื—ืื” ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, even though according to the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ you have to make a ืžื—ืื” ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, but an excuse he has. He could have say he could say that the reason I kept my ืžื—ืื” from making it ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” is because the ื“ื™ืŸ is that from when you make a ืžื—ืื” you have three years till you have to make the other ืžื—ืื”. So he thought to himself, "Why should I make a ืžื—ืื” right away, and then in three years from now I'll have to make another ืžื—ืื”? Let me wait till the end, close to the end of the three years, then I'll make a ืžื—ืื”, I'll have three more years." Even though it's not such a strong excuse, but according to the ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื a small excuse is acceptable. So according to the ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื, the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ says we could say that in the case where ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” he didn't make a ืžื—ืื”, even though he should have had to, he should have made a ืžื—ืื”, he didn't, and at the end he was an ืื•ื ืก, we don't hold it against him, according to the ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื, because they say any small excuse works, that that shouldn't be held against. And

Final reconciliation of ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ with ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื

therefore, the ื‘ื™ืช ื™ื•ืกืฃ says that according to the ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื, I could accept the ื ื™ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ's ืกื‘ืจื. Even though I hold that a ืžื—ืื” has to be done ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, and therefore if you were a ืคื•ืฉืข ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, even though you were an ืื•ื ืก later, it's not called an ืื•ื ืก. But according to the ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื, I could understand, because as long as there is a small excuse. But if not for the ื™ืฉ ืžืคืจืฉื™ื, which means if a small excuse is not acceptable, then I say it's called a ืคืฉื™ืขื”, and his not making a ืžื—ืื” is called a ืคืฉื™ืขื”, and therefore we hold it against him, and the other guy gets a ื—ื–ืงื”. But the ื ื™ืžื•ืงื™ ื™ื•ืกืฃ holds that since the whole ื“ื™ืŸ of ืžื—ืื” is not supposed to be done ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื”, you could do it any time you want, so the fact that he didn't do it ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” is not called a ืคืฉื™ืขื”. So he ืคืกืงื 'ืก that if ืœื›ืชื—ื™ืœื” he didn't do it ื‘ื›ื•ื•ื ื”, he could have made a ืžื—ืื” and didn't, and later on he was an ืื•ื ืก, we consider him an ืื•ื ืก, and therefore we don't hold it against him. And since it's not against him, his lack of ืžื—ืื” is nothing wrong, and therefore the other guy's ื—ื–ืงื” is not a ื—ื–ืงื”. [Non-speech audio] [Non-speech audio] Testing. Testing. [Non-speech audio] [Non-speech audio]

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