The Seven Sons Who All Became Kohen Gadol
The Seven Sons Who All Became Kohen Gadol
Part of Beit Hamikdash · 15:17
The story of Yishmael ben Kimchis and his seven sons who each served as Kohen Gadol, the Foundation Stone (even shesiya), and the five ambiguous verses debated by Issi ben Yehudah.
Audio Transcript
Yishmael ben Kimchis. They said, here in middle of beginning of the fifth 砖讜专讛. Rav Yehuda at the beginning, at middle of 注诪讜讚 讗', right after the brackets. They said, 谞讙讬讚 专讘讬 讬砖诪注讗诇 讘谉 拽诪讞讬转: 驻注诐 讗讞转 讬爪讗, it was once 讬讜诐 讻讬驻讜专 he went out, 讜住讬驻专 注诐 注专讘讬 讗讞讚, and he spoke to this Arab, 讘砖讜拽, in the street. Or maybe it was right before 讬讜诐 讻讬驻讜专, 讜谞讬转讝讛 爪讬谞讜专讛 诪驻讬讜 注诇 讘讙讚讬讜, and a spit came from the 讙讜讬's mouth to the garments of the 讻讛谉 讙讚讜诇. So now he becomes 讟诪讗. So he couldn't do the 注讘讜讚讛 讬讜诐 讻讬驻讜专. 讜谞讻谞住 讬砖讘讘 讗讞讬讜 讜砖讬诪砖 转讞转讬讜. So 讬砖讘讘, his brother, came and took over the, became 讻讛谉 讙讚讜诇. 讜专讗转讛 讗讬诪谉 砖谞讬 讘谞讬诐, 讘谞讬讛 讻讛谞讬诐 讙讚讜诇讬诐 讘讬讜诐 讗讞讚. So the mother, Kimchis, in one day had two sons Kohanim Gedolim. 砖讜讘 讗诪专讜 注诇讬讜 注诇 专讘讬 讬砖诪注讗诇 讘谉 拽诪讞讬转, another time with 讬砖诪注讗诇 讘谉 拽诪讞讬转: 砖驻注诐 讗讞转 讬爪讗 讜住讬驻专 注诐 讗讚讜谉 讗讞讚 讘砖讜拽, once also he went out and he spoke to some guy in the street, 讜谞讬转讝讛 爪讬谞讜专讛 诪驻讬讜 注诇 讘讙讚讬讜, and a spit came from his mouth on his clothes, 讜谞讻谞住 讬讜住祝 讗讞讬讜 讜砖讬诪砖 转讞转讬讜. And another brother, Yosef, his brother, went and became the Kohen Gadol. No, but they stay with the status of Kohen Gadol forever. Because they went up, they can't go back, can't go down, exactly. 讜专讗转讛 讗讬诪谉 砖谞讬 讻讛谞讬诐 讙讚讜诇讬诐 讘讬讜诐 讗讞讚. So here, the mother saw two Kohanim Gedolim the same day. So already we have three!
转谞讜 专讘谞谉, the 专讘谞谉 said: 砖讘注讛 讘谞讬诐 讛讬讜 诇讛 诇拽诪讞讬转, seven children 拽诪讞讬转 had, 讜讻讜诇谉 砖讬诪砖讜 讘讻讛讜谞讛 讙讚讜诇讛, they were all at one point 讻讛谞讬诐 讙讚讜诇讬诐. 讗诪专讜 诇讛 讞讻诪讬诐, the 讞讻诪讬诐 said to her, 诪讛 注砖讬转 砖讝讻讬转 诇讻讱? What did you do that you were zocheh, such a zechut, to have seven children Kohanim Gedolim? 讗诪专讛 诇讛诐, she said to them: 诪讬诪讬 诇讗 专讗讜 拽讜专讜转 讘讬转讬 拽诇注讬 砖注专讜转讬. That never in my life did the beams of my my house, meaning even the walls, the ceiling, never saw my hair uncovered. Beit HaMikdash. 讗诪专讜 诇讛, they said to her, 讛专讘讛 谞砖讬诐 注砖讜 讻谉 讜诇讗 讛讜注讬诇讜. Many women did this and it didn't help. They were trying to tell her you must have an extra zechut, because a lot of people did it and it didn't help. You, obviously this is part of of it also, but this itself would not be enough, you had a zechut. Mefarshim ask why why do they think it was her zechut, maybe it was her husband's zechut? Maybe the father, why do they ask... Because the children are named for her, you know, 拽诪讞讬转... No, because of the story, we've got, because because we say that she had a zechut. So made... but what made them say, they asked her, what was the lashon here? 诪讛 注砖讬转 砖讝讻讬转 诇讻讱? Some want to say that maybe the seven sons were not from one husband. So obviously it's not the man, the husband. I mean, two husbands have the same zechut, that's already strange. She was the mother and they were... So whatever, the different peshatim. Here, the Maharsha, I'm seeing right now, 转诇讜 讛讚讘专 讘讛 讘讝讻讜转讛, 讜诇讗 讘讝讻讜转 讗讬砖讛. They made it on her, not on her husband. 讚讗驻砖专 砖讛讬讜 诪讻讬专讬谉 讗讬砖讛 砖诇讗 讛讬讛 诇讜 讝讻讜转 讻诇 讻讱. Maybe they knew the husband and he wasn't such a big tzadik! So that couldn't be. And then 讜注讜讚 讗驻砖专 砖讝' 讘谞讬讛 讗诇讛 诇讗 讛讬讜 诪讗讬砖 讗讞讚. Maybe they wasn't from one husband, 讗诇讗 诪讘' kohanim. Okay. Okay. Huh? No, no. Yeah, that's the only thing we know about her. So he says that the second one was also a kohen and she was an almanah, yeah.
讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讛讜砖注 讘谉 诇讜讬, 专讘讬 讬讛讜砖注 讘谉 诇讜讬 said: 诇讬 讛讬转讬专 专讘讬 讞谞讬谞讗 诇诪讬砖转讬 砖讞诇讬讬诐 讘砖讘转. The whole she'eilah if you're allowed to drink 砖讞诇讬讬诐 讘砖讘转. 砖讞诇讬讬诐, whatever, I don't know the English word is, but it's a refuah. And we know Shabbos you can't take a refuah, unless it's dangerous, or unless it's inside the problem inside, interior problem. Anyway, so Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said Rabbi Chanina allowed me. 诪讗讬 砖谞讗 专讘讬 讞谞讬谞讗? What's with Rabbi Chanina? If he allowed you, allowed. What what was the maalah of Rabbi Chanina? So the Gemara says, 诪砖讜诐 讚讘拽讬 讘专驻讜讗讜转 讛讜讛. He was a doctor! That's the maalah, he was he knew medicine. He was able to write prescriptions, so he is the one that knows that this is allowed. And he brings a raayah that he was known to have to he knew things of medicine. Because 讚讗诪专 专讘讬 讞谞讬谞讗, 专讘讬 讞谞讬谞讗 said: 诪讬诪讬 诇讗 砖讗诇讜谞讬 讗讚诐 注诇 诪讻转 驻专讚讛 诇讘谞讛 讜讞讬讛. Never did ever come a person to me with a problem that he was hit or bitten or hit by a 驻专讚讛, by a mule, a white mule, these are the terrible ones, and that he should live. Which shows he was a doctor. In other words, people came to him with medical problems. But never happened. Definitely was a rabbi. Doctor, that's why he was able to know which thing is good, which is not. But here we see that he was a doctor. If people never asked me that I should be able to say, I never saved a person. So fregt the 讙诪专讗, 讜讞讝讬谞谉 讚讞讬讛? How do you say that if a person is bitten by a 驻专讚讛, a white 驻专讚讛, you can't live? You never saw live. We know that we see people that do live! So the Gemara says, it didn't mean 讞讬讛 to live, it's 讞讬转讛, were 讜讞讬讛, that the 诪讻讛, the wound should be cured. The part of the body start living again. 驻专注讙讟 讚讬 讙诪专讗: 讜讛讗 讞讝讬谞谉 讚诪讬转住讬. We see that 讙讜驻讗. We see that 诪讻讛 from a white 驻专讬讚讛, and it does get cured. The Gemara answers it means a special kind of 驻专讬讚讛: 讚住讜诪拽谉 讗讬谞讛讜, they are red, 讜讞讬讜专谉 专讬砖 讻专注讬讬讛讜, I mean I'm only talking about those 驻专讬讚讜转 that they are their their their, they're white, no, they're red, but their the top of their feet is white, not a regular one. That's a very very terrible one, and that, if it hits you or hurts you, it'll never cure. Never heal. 讝讗讙讟 讚讬 诪砖谞讛, it goes back to the avodah of the Kohen Gadol:
谞讟诇 讗转 讛诪讞转讛 讘讬诪讬谞讜, the Kohen Gadol would take the pan in his right hand, 讜讗转 讛讻祝 and the spoon 讘砖诪讗诇讜 in his rest left hand. 讜讛讬讛 诪讛诇讱 讘讛讬讻诇, he walked in the 讛讬讻诇 注讚 砖讛讜讗 诪讙讬注 诇讘讬谉 砖转讬 驻专讜讻讜转 讛诪讘讚讬诇讜转 讘讬谉 讛拽讜讚砖 诇拽讜讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐. Till he came like he walked whole heichal. The heichal was the first area. The heichal had the shulchan, the menorah, the small mizbe'ach. He walked through there, then there was a curtain. And behind the curtain was the 拽讜讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐. He was supposed to go, this is Yom Kippur, he was supposed to go into 拽讜讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐. So, he carried in the right hand the machtah, in the left hand the spoon, and he walked through the heichal till he came to the parochot that separated between the 拽讜讚砖 and 拽讜讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐, 讜讘讬谞讬讛诐 讗诪讛, and between them was an 讗诪讛. So, it comes out, he says there were two parochot. That means like this: there was a room here, a room here, and between the room, there were two 驻专讜讻讜转. And if the space in between the two was an 讗诪讛. Rabbi Yosi 讗讜诪专, Rabbi Yosi says 诇讗 讛讬转讛 讗诇讗 驻专讜讻转 讗讞转, so, therefore, there was only one 驻专讜讻转, 砖谞讗诪专 it says 讜讛讘讚讬诇讛 讛驻专讜讻转. The 驻专讜讻转 should separate, so it's one. Anyway, going back to the first opinion that he came to the place where there was the two 驻专讜讻讜转: 讛讞讬爪讜谞讛 驻专讜驻讛 诪谉 讛讚专讜诐 讜讛驻谞讬诪讬转 诪谉 讛爪驻讜谉. The 驻专讜讻转, each one at the corner, was empty. In other words, this one did not reach to the end and this one did not reach to this end. So, the kohen would walk in here, it was empty, walk in between, 诪讛诇讱 讘讬谞讬讛诐, walked in between the two, 注讚 砖诪讙讬注 诇爪驻讜谉 until he came to 爪驻讜谉. 讛讙讬注 诇爪驻讜谉, he got to 爪驻讜谉, 讜讛驻讱 驻谞讬讜 诇讚专讜诐. He went to 讚专讜诐, 诪讛诇讱 诇砖诪讗诇讜 注诐 讛驻专讜讻转, he goes on the side of the 驻专讜讻转 注讚 砖诪讙讬注 诇讗专讜谉 until he got to the 讗专讜谉. Which is very very very simple. Yeah, it was like this, so he walks in like this, came here, here this okay it was must have been oh like this, let's say like this: walked in like this, went through the here, here was empty, he went in here, turned, and walked here till came to the 讗专讜谉. All the way around. Yeah, he didn't have to pull the 驻专讜讻转. Didn't have to pull the 驻专讜讻转. Right. Space to walk in here, space to walk in there, But the corner. the corner, not in the middle. Not in the middle. He walked in, walked on the side of the 驻专讜讻转 till he came to the 讗专讜谉, okay. 讛讙讬注 诇讗专讜谉, and he got to the 讗专讜谉, 谞讜转谉 讗转 讛诪讞转讛 讘讬谉 砖谞讬 讛讘讚讬诐, he put down the pan between the two poles. Means on top of the 讗专讜谉 between the two poles. 爪讘专 讗转 讛拽讟讜专转 注诇 讙讘讬 讙讞诇讬诐, then he put the whole bunch, he bunched up the 拽讟讜专转, put it down on the coal. So, he had coal in the pan. 讜谞转诪诇讗 讻诇 讛讘讬转 讻讜诇讜 注砖谉, then when it started burning, the whole room became full of smoke. 讜讬爪讗, and he went out, 讜讘讗 诇讜 讘讚专讱 讘讬转 讻谞讬住转讜, and he went through the same place he came from. When he came, he went through the 讛讬讻诇, he came back into the 讛讬讻诇. 讜诪转驻诇诇 转驻讬诇讛 拽爪专讛 讘讘讬转 讛讞讬爪讜谉, and this outside in the 讛讬讻诇 which is outside of the 拽讜讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐 he davened, said a tefilah, a small a short tefilah. 讜诇讗 讛讬讛 诪讗专讬讱 讘转驻讬诇转讜, he wasn't long, 砖诇讗 诇讛讘注讬转 讗转 讬砖专讗诇, 讗讬讚谉 shouldn't get scared, because we know in the second 讘讬转 讛诪拽讚砖 many 讻讛谞讬诐 讙讚讜诇讬诐 died in the 讘讬转 拽讜讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐. So, they were waiting anxiously outside to see if he gets out. And if he would daven too long, they would get nervous. So, they said daven very short. 诪砖谞讬讟诇讛 讗专讜谉, when there was no 讗专讜谉, when the 讗专讜谉 was taken away, 讗讘谉 讛讬转讛 砖诐, there was in that place there was a rock Who could see him? Who could see him? Sure. Yeah. So would they be pulling him out from the 拽讜讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐 with that chain, that rope? If he died. If he died. Yeah. When there was no 讗专讜谉, there was a rock there 诪讬诪讜转
谞讘讬讗讬诐 讛专讗砖讜谞讬诐, from the time of the first 谞讘讬讗讬诐. Who are the first 谞讘讬讗讬诐? Rashi says, that it's David and Shlomo. 讜砖转讬讛 讛讬转讛 谞拽专讗转, it was called 砖转讬讛, it's called the 讗讘谉 砖转讬讛. Why is it called the 讗讘谉 砖转讬讛? Foundation stone. Huh? Which was the foundation stone. That this stone, that's what was there. Why was it called the 讗讘谉 砖转讬讛? The world started from it. It says that the world when the Eibershter created the world and it started forming, it started with that rock. All right. And from that the world formed into into earth. In the Kodesh Hakodashim. Under the 讗专讜谉 or But there was no 讗专讜谉. It was somewhere else, but anyhow there was No 讗专讜谉 was there, there was a rock there, second Beis Hamikdash, also the end of the first Beis Hamikdash. That's when the 讗专讜谉 was Huh? So? No. Second Beis Hamikdash didn't have the 讗专讜谉. But this rock was there always. The 讗专讜谉 stood on the rock. The end of the first. End of the first. Yeah. Some say it was taken by the by the goyim, but the Gemara says and the Rambam 驻住拽谞壮讟 it was taken by Yoshiyahu. It's not like mamash the end, quite a few years before the end. Long time he hid it, Yoshiyahu hid it. Solomon's Caves, right? Yeah. So this was a rock that was there even from before. It was called 砖转讬讛 because it's the foundation. That's some people say the peshat. Gemara says, Rashi says, 讗专抓 讬砖专讗诇 讙讘讜讛 诪讻诇 讛讗专爪讜转, says Eretz Yisrael is the highest, and Yerushalayim is the highest. That's that's not true, there's so many places in the world which is higher, why is this higher? So they say it doesn't mean highest physically. When you have a circle, which is the top? You can't know. The place you start, the point you start from, that's the top. So that's called, we call it higher. We always call it high, it's not really higher, so when the The starting point. So the whole circle comes from there. So the 讗讘谉 砖转讬讛 was the beginning of the creation, therefore that's it, Yerushalayim is called the highest. If you draw a circle, where's the head, the beginning? Beginning, that's called the top. Yeah. 讜讙讘讜讛 诪谉 讛讗专抓 讙壮 讗爪讘注讜转, this was above the earth three fingers up. 讜注诇讬讛 讛讬讛 谞讜转谉 讗转 讛诪讞转讛, so when there was no 讗专讜谉, he would put the pan with the coal, everything on that stone. 讝讗讙讟 讚讬 Gemara: 讗诪专 专讘讬 讬讜讞谞谉, 专讘讬 Rabbi Yochanan said, 讘注讬 讬讜住祝 讗讬砖 讛讜爪诇, Yosef Ish Hutzal asked a question, peshat in a pasuk. The pasuk says, 讜讚讘讬专 讘转讜讱 讛讘讬转 诪驻谞讬诪讛 讛讻讬谉 诇转转 砖诐 讗转 讗专讜谉 讘专讬转 讛壮. The maaseh like this, he didn't know the peshat. 讚讘讬专 goes on that 讗诪转 讟专拽住讬谉. 讗诪转 讟专拽住讬谉 is the 讗诪讛 in between the Kodesh Hakodashim and the 拽讚砖. That's called the 讚讘讬专. So the 讚讘讬专 was 讘转讜讱 讛讘讬转 诪驻谞讬诪讛 讛讻讬谉 诇转转 砖诐 讗转 讛讗专讜谉. We have to ask, the Gemara is going to ask, how do we taytsh the pasuk? The word 诪驻谞讬诪讛 could be taytsh't two ways. You say this and this, 诪驻谞讬诪讛 in the inner part of that, that's where you put the 讗专讜谉. That comes out that this is not part of the place of the 讗专讜谉. This is not 拽讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐. Or you could say that this goes on before. Let's read inside. 讘注讜 诪讬谞讬讛 讛讬讻讬 拽讗诪专, what does the kra, what does the pasuk mean? 讜讚讘讬专 讘转讜讱 讛讘讬转, 讜讚讘讬专 讘转讜讱 讛讘讬转 诪驻谞讬诪讛 讛讻讬谉 诇转转 砖诐, that from the 驻谞讬诪讛 from the 讚讘讬专 further on, that's where you put the 讗专讜谉, 讗讜 讚诇诪讗 讛讻讬 拽讗诪专: 讜讚讘讬专 讘转讜讱 讛讘讬转 诪驻谞讬诪讛, that the 讚讘讬专 is inside. The she'eilah really is here, this 讗诪讛 that is in between, it's not clear. Is it the 拽讚讜砖讛 of the 拽讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐 or is it the 拽讚讜砖讛 of the 讛讬讻诇? And it depends how is the peshat in the pasuk. Or something in between? The pasuk doesn't say it. So that's what he had a she'eilah. So since he had a she'eilah, that's why the halachah, why did they make the second Beis Hamikdash, they didn't make a wall, they made the paroches? Where did they make the paroches? Was the paroches, was this 讗诪讛 part of the 拽讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐 or not? They did it, both like, both there. They made it outside the 砖讟讞 of the 拽讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐, but it wasn't part of the 讛讬讻诇 either. It was not part of the 讛讬讻诇 in case it belongs to the 拽讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐, and it was not part of the 拽讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐 in case it was the 讛讬讻诇. No. No, there were two sets, and there was a 讗诪讛 in between. That 讗诪讛, was the 拽讚讜砖讛 of 拽讚砖 讛拽讚砖讬诐 or not, they didn't know. Fregt di Gemara: 讜诪讬 诪住驻拽讗 诇讬讛? Did he takeh have a safek? 讜讛转谞讬讗, didn't we learn Issi ben Yehudah omer, Issi ben Yehudah says 讞诪砖 诪拽专讗讜转 讘转讜专讛 讗讬谉 诇讛诐 讛讻专注, there are only five pesukim in the Torah that we don't know on a word which way it goes. The five words are 砖讗转, 诪砖讜拽讚讬诐, 诪讞专, 讗专讜专, 讜拽诐. Okay, we have to go through what they are, but not for this second. And who asked, who said that? Issi ben Yehudah. Who was Issi ben Yehudah? 转谞讬讗 we learned:
讛讜讗 讬讜住祝 讗讬砖 讛讜爪诇, 讛讜讗 讬讜住祝 讛讘讘诇讬, 讛讜讗 讗讬住讬 讘谉 讬讛讜讚讛, 讛讜讗 讗讬住讬 讘谉 讙讜专 讗专讬讛, 讛讜讗 讗讬住讬 讘谉 讙诪诇讬讗诇, 讛讜讗 讗讬住讬 讘谉 诪讛诇诇讗诇, all these names are the same person. 讜诪讛 砖诪讜? 讗讬住讬 讘谉 注拽讘讬讛 砖诪讜. His name was Issi ben Akavyah. So he said, which is the same person as Yosef, Yosef Ish Hutzal, that there are five pesukim in the Torah, and this is not one of those five which he has a safek. So how come he says here the five, that there is a safek in peshat in this pasuk whether the word 诪驻谞讬诪讛 goes on the 讚讘讬专, on this? So the Gemara answers: 讘讚讗讜专讬讬转讗 诇讬转 诇讬讛, 讘谞讘讬讗讬 讗讬转 诇讬讛. In Chumash there isn't, but in Neviim there is. Could he have learned from all this from from Rabbi Akiva? Rabban Gamliel, Hillel? I don't know. Were they all in the same time then? I don't know. So we're going to stop now, but tomorrow, not tomorrow, Wednesday we're going to learn what are the five pesukim, to see pashut what are the she'elot, and then we'll see further in the Gemara. Oh yeah, yasher koach.