middle of ל\"ד. No, here, no, ל\"ד. But in the middle here, אמר רבי עקיבא. I'll pay for it. Not going to אמר רבי עקיבא. No, it's better because you should get in front of me. Go ahead. You are wrong, by the way. It wasn't because they wanted to keep Didn't want cut short You say ל\"ד. אמר רבי עקיבא, yeah. Oh, I'm Middle here, אמר רבי עקיבא, Rabbi Akiva said: סח לי רבי ישמעאל בן לוגא, רבי ישמעאל בן לוגא told me, פעם אחת יצאתי אני ואחד מבני בניהם, once me and one of the grandchildren of this family who used to make the קטורת came out לשדה ללקט עשבים, came to the field to collect grass. ראיתי שבוכה ושוחק, I saw he was crying and laughing. אמרתי לו, so I said to him, מפני מה בכית, why did you cry? אמר לי, he told me, כבוד אבותי נזכרתי, I reminded myself of the כבוד that my forefathers had, that they made the קטורת and they had all the כבוד. I remembered, and now it's not there, so I cried. ומפני מה שחקת, so why did you laugh? אמר לי, so he told me, שעתיד הקדוש ברוך הוא להחזיר לנו, I laughed because I know the אייבערשטער will bring it back, so I'm happy. And then he said, ומאי ראית, what did you see that was מעורר you to start thinking about, you know, your father's כבוד that they had, what happened? What did you see now? אמר לי, he said to me, מעלה עשן כנגדי, I saw the grass which is called מעלה עשן, which was a special trick that they had, how to make the קטורת, that make it go up straight. When I was walking here in the field, I happened to see that grass. So ממילא, it reminded me. The מעלה עשן was to make it go up, not fit to to not so very straight. It was the נס that made it straight. That's not what we spoke about yesterday. No, so that the other guys couldn't do it, now they did it just But it wasn't the מעלה עשן that made it go straight. מעלה עשן, the way they put it in, made it go straight. And that was that even if the נס was that even if there was a wind, it still kept straight. That's here. Anyway, so he said to him, הראהו לי, you said you saw here in the field the מעלה עשן, show me, which one is it? אמר לי, so he said, שבועה היא בידינו, there's a שבועה by us in the family שאין מראין אותו לכל אדם, we don't show it to anybody. It's all part of the secret that no one even knew what the grass מעלה עשן is. So when it was there, he wouldn't show him which one it is.

אמר רבי יוחנן בן נורי, Rabbi Yochanan ben Nuri said, פעם אחת מצאתי זקן אחד, once I saw this old man, ומגילת סממנין בידו, I saw a מגילה, a parchment with different ingredients on it. אמרתי לו, I said to him, מאין אתה, where are you from? I mean where, on סתם, so where you come from? אמר לי, he said, מבית אבטינס, I'm from the family of בית אבטינס who brought the קטורת, אני. ומה בידך, what do you have in your hand? אמר לי, he said, מגילת סממנין, I have the מגילה of all these ingredients that they used in the קטורת. הראהו לי, he asked him show it to me. Recipe. Yeah, correct. אמר לי, he said, כל זמן שבית אבא היו קיימין, as long as my forefathers were alive, which means they want there was a בית המקדש, לא היו מוסרין זו לכל אדם, they wouldn't give it, they wouldn't show it to anybody. ועכשיו הרי הוא לך, now that there's no בית המקדש anyway, I can give it to you. והזהר בה. He showed it to him, I guess showed it to him, but he remembered it. And he said, \"be careful\", don't you know, don't just throw it around, tell everybody, but he didn't mind showing him. וכשבאתי והסחתי דברים לפני רבי עקיבא, so when I told רבי עקיבא, אמר לי, he said to me, מעתה אסור לספר בגנותן של אלו, from now, till now we spoke bad about these families, from now on we shouldn't speak bad of these families. First of all, you see that now they're not hiding it, and the reason they hid it was because it didn't, like we said before, they gave an excuse because they didn't want it to be used for avodah zarah, so we should stop, we should No, answer, I don't mean excuse. They gave an answer why they did what, and mimela, so the key was that they didn't use in their own their own family didn't use it. But besides that, no, but besides that, but they didn't want to teach anybody. That's What's the complaint against them? Why don't you want to teach anybody? So that, because it might come to avodah zarah. Yeah, so it's legitimate. So now we're told not to talk about No, now if he says that you see that they're serious guys, oh why he's now he even gave it to him. So now I could speak Did it ever happen of things coming to avodah zarah in this? I guess so. Not only happen, we know that they used for avodah zarah everything that they used for the Beit HaMikdash. Yeah, whatever they did in korbanot, they did over there. That's why wine, they used to pour wine for avodah zarah, all their things that they brought. We

even find like this, why is wine that's cooked over is is no problem by a goy, why? Because wine that's cooked is pasul for the mizbeach. And because it was pasul for the mizbeach, they pasel it for avodah zarah. So they wouldn't let the wine that was cooked used for avodah zarah, and since the wine that were that's asur nowadays is connected to the yayin of avodah zarah, it's not really, because nowadays what's asur? If a goy touches it. That's סתם יינם, that's יין נסך, not נסך. But look at it in קבלה, it's it's been only also only for for kiddush and havdalah and all. So even though the the issur that we have in wine has nothing to do with avodah zarah, chachamim made the issur not to drink goyishe wine, cause you might come to marry them. What about like So that's סתם יינם. Nevertheless, סתם יינם is in the category of the wine that's assur for avodah zarah, and by avodah zarah they didn't use for avodah zarah any wine that was cooked. Why didn't they use any wine that was cooked? Because wine that was cooked is also assur for the mizbeach. Cuz they used to copy everything that we had on the mizbeach. That's what they were afraid: if we're going to tell them how to make the ketoret, they'll do that. Not to drink goyishe wine, but the wine when goyim That I don't mean with sitting with goyim. Any wine that is touched by a goy is assur, why? Cuz we want to stay away from the goyim. Just being in a מסיבה of goyim, that's something else, that's even kasher wine. But naturally then, if it's cooked wine it should also still be assur. That's why he said the chachamim, when they made this wine assur, they didn't make like it's a new thing that doesn't exist, they connected it to the issur of of avodah zarah, of of יין נסך. And because by יין נסך it's not assur, they didn't assur it by סתם יינם neither. What were they talk about? What were the avodah zarah? Huh? What kinds of avodah zarah? I mean, all kinds of avodah zarah. I mean, at the time of the first Beis Hamikdash or the second Beis Hamikdash, in those Well, the chachamim made it was in the time of the second Beis Hamikdash. סתם יינם is No, this יין נסך is the first Beis Hamikdash also, yeah. Yeah. This This is second. This is all the second Beis Hamikdash. Second Beis Hamikdash. All right. Goyim? Yeah, if the goyim would know how to do it, they would do it for avodah zarah, because they tried to copy the בית המקדש. Even today? Huh? The beginning of of Yeshu? That's he he In the second בית המקדש? No, he was at the end of the second בית המקדש. He was mamash the last few years. All these things? But this is before. This is long before. It's hard to see, because the whole idea by them was no more מצות. That's something else. They were Yidden, actually. The first followers of Yeshu were Yidden, and they something else. What? How would you copy these things if we do Not they! They were not the one to copy. עבודה זרה, no, the people who worshipped עבודה זרה. Way before? Not way, way before. Way before them. One of the מעלות that the credit we give to him is that he pulled people away from עבודה זרה. He got them the wrong idea anyway, but they stopped worshipping עבודה זרה. That's something the Rambam says. That's a maalah. Says, why did the Aibershter send that Yeshu? To pull people away from עבודה זרה. And why did he send that meshugener, this Muhammad, also? To pull away. That's like looking at the bad that it has a certain part that's good. What was different about the the recipe that that they had from what we see in the How How to mix it, not only the recipe. Yeah, how much proportion, how much this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it says how much to put in, but then what do you do with it? What do you put in first? What do you put in second? When you make a cake and there's a recipe, there's a seder. You can't just take them all and mix them in and make some. You kind of put this in, huh? Yeah. So the מעלות here. Anyway, כאן אמר בן עזאי, from this thing Ben Azai said, Ben Azai said, from what we said before, that they first didn't teach to anybody. Mimela, they חכמים brought in new guys and it didn't work and they get they begged they got it back to them. From here they said, like I can see, בשמך יקראוך ובמקומך יושיבוך. You're going to be called by your name, put you in your place. ומשלך יתנו לך. You'll only get yours. ואין אדם נוגע במוכן לחברו. A person cannot take away, touch something that belongs to somebody else. The Aibershter says don't think that anyone someone's going to take away from you. The best re'ayah is over here. It was their job, and they tried to take it away from them. Finished young and they got it back. Seeing that Hashem wouldn't allow it. Hashem wouldn't allow it, yeah, you know, don't be afraid that אין מלכות נוגעת בחברתה אפילו כמלא נימא. If one מלכות would take away from another מלכות, never! Even for one a hair. When the time comes for that מלכות to lose, then the Aibershter will make it. You can't say So, in other words, don't be afraid that this is no one's going to take away anything. You say that by business, too? Huh? By business, too? That's what we said before, no. אין אדם נוגע במוכן לחברו. That there's nothing takes away. Why is it stealing? Then why do you have stealing and everything on that? No. She's asking, so according to this, there's דינים what you're not allowed to do, but there's telling the person that he should know that it's not going to take away. It fits to what we what we put on Shabbos. The person who steals, he gets punished because he chose to do something wrong. The person that stolen from knows that the Aibershter wanted him to take it away. If he the Aibershter wouldn't want him he should lose it, he would never lose it. זאגט די Gemara weiter, Ben Kam tz ar. We

said we we learned before that בן קמצר לא רצה ללמד על מעשה הכתב. Didn't want to teach the writing. So the Gemara says, what is the writing? אמרו עליו, they said on him, שהיה נוטל ארבעה קולמוסין, and he would take four pens, בין אצבעותיו, between his fingers, which really means between five fingers. Because the four fingers there notation was חמשה. Four is three pens, but it's five fingers. Between five fingers, yeah, four pens. אם היתה תיבה של ארבע אותיות, and he sees that there was a word of four letters, היתה נכתבת היה כותבה בבת אחת, he would write it together. This means the word means that Hashem, Hashem's name, with one thing he would write יוד קא ואו קא. So is only the Hashem's name he The lashon here is is is any four words. But Rashi, I think Rashi said, but anyway, it was the Hashem's name. What we learned before was See, Rashi says, וכי היכי דארבע קולמוסין בארבע אצבעתיה, והיה כותב שם, שם של יוד קי ואו קי ביחד. Lashon haGemara is five, four like that, could be it's only the shem, I don't know. אמרו ליה, they said: מאי ראית שלא ללמד? כולם, מה ראית שלא ללמד? What made you stop? And we said he didn't want to teach either. כולם מצאו תשובה לדבריהם. The others one that didn't want to teach, the ketores and the lechem hapanim, they gave a good reason. בן קמצר לא מצא תשובה לדבריו. Ben Kamtzar didn't give an answer, didn't have an answer. על הראשונים נאמר זכר צדיק לברכה, so those that they gave a good answer, we remember them for a brachah. And about בן קמצר וחביריו, and him and his his guys, and then what it says ושם רשעים ירקב, the name of the reshaim should be rotten. Why did anybody else have to learn how to do that? This is for the, and when did they have, and when would he have to do that? When would he have to write it? Only by the the Sotah, right? Oh you're saying for the Torah, you mean, to write the shemot, yeah? This the same, Ben Kamtzar, like Kamtzar, Kamtzar. Yeah, but, but you could write it Kamtzar of the Beit Hamikdash, the other one is there's a maalah to write it with all at once with four, but you don't have to, right? You don't have to, but there's a maalah. So, why didn't you want to teach that maalah? Kavanah is a maalah, the kavanah of the whole kavanah. It's not like the the the other things that that had to be done like Yeah, but he did it. He was writing a sefer Torah like this? You write, yeah. Four letters. Four letters. Well, Hashem's name. Well, why would you write a Yud Kei Vav Kei? After that, you roll it in. In a Torah? No problem. No, tefillin is That's what he did? He wrote the whole Sefer Torah, Sefer Torah? He was, well, a sofer, and he would were able to write this came, and it's in as far as כוונות and this, it's important that if you can have all the at one shem. A sofer, yeah. Yeah. But he was bad. He didn't want to teach, so they said ושם רשעים ירקב on him. He doesn't have an excuse. In a Sefer Torah ח' is not a regular ח'. So okay, so, how do you write a ה'? Well yeah, and if it's not a Sefer Torah, what's the difference? Those writings anyway כתב אשורית, the writing the letters were the same. Each letter has so much of hanging Yeah, yeah, okay, but if that's the whole kuntz, no? It's a kuntz to write them all with the proper attention and all with בבת אחת, to have the whole שם בבת אחת. So, he doesn't have the same excuse? He didn't have any excuse. He didn't give any reason why he didn't want to teach. He just didn't want to teach it. He wanted to be the gantzer yichus, he wanted to be the gantzer macher. זאגט די גמרא: מאי ושם רשעים ירקב? What does it mean the name of a rasha could rot? How does a name rot? אמר רבי אלעזר: רקבוס, רקבובית תעלה בשמותיהן, there should be a rottenness in the names. מאי? What does that mean? אמר רבינא: דלא מסקינן בשמייהו, that you don't mention people by their name. No, we don't call somebody by the name of a rasha. That's why the she'eilah is if we could call someone Yishmael.

Remember I told this over once, the Rabbi' Yonasan Eibeschutz, the old story? I told this once, remember? The Rabbi' Yonasan Eibeschutz once as a kid, he became, they wanted to take him as a chasan, so the shver wanted to test him. So, he says: say something, say a dvar Torah, say, on what inyan? So the boy says: any sugya you want, anything, I'll tell you Torah. Bring any sefer and I'll open it up. So, they sent a kid, because they were afraid maybe with somebody else he made, they sent a kid. What kids' sefer would a kid bring? A siddur. So, the kid went to the שאנק, took out a siddur, open. So, they brought him, said: that's a mistake, you can't say a pilpul. No, don't worry, I'll say on the siddur. Opened up the siddur, just like that. I'll say a pilpul. He looks, רבי ישמעאל אומר בשלש עשרה מדות שהתורה נדרשת בהן, that's where it opened up. So, I have two kashyas. First of all, how does a Yid have a name Yishmael? I always wondered that. Yeah, and then he said, there's no machloket here. The klal is if there's a machloket, it says one person says this and the other one omer, but someone makes a statement, it says amar. Should say אמר רבי ישמעאל, why does it say רבי ישמעאל אומר? He says: I'll tell you. One kashya answers the other. Why did they name takeh Yishmael, a rasha? Cuz he did teshuvah. How do you know Yishmael did teshuvah? Rashi in Chumash says because it says he let, when they buried Avraham, he let Yitzchak go before him because it says ויקברו יצחק וישמעאל בניו. So there's a כלל, אין מוקדם ומאוחר בתורה. בתורה there's no order, so maybe really Yishmael came first. אלא מאי? The Gemara says that in ענין אחד, in one inyan, there is a סדר. Because if you have an inyan here, an inyan here, you can say this came before. But in one inyan, the Gemara brings a raayah. The raayah is from the whole concept of כלל ופרט, ופרט וכלל. If the klal comes before the prat, the din is like this, like this. But how do you know that? Maybe אין מוקדם ומאוחר בתורה, the klal is before the prat, really the prat is supposed to be before the klal. So, the Gemara brings a raayah from there that in one inyan, we do go with an order. And because of that re'ayah, that's how we know that Yishmael did teshuvah. So, he says that's the פשט, רבי ישמעאל אומר, the name Yishmael tells us that ב'כלל ופרט ופרט וכלל' there is a Made the שידוך אפ. Mishneh Torah, I don't know, sometimes Moshe ve-Aharon, sometimes Aharon ve-Moshe. Okay. So it's, adraba, that shows that יש מוקדם ומאוחר, and there must be a reason for it. For the re'ayah. For that is from this inyan of כלל ופרט. Did you say he said it to a son of the Rabbi Yonatan Eybeschutz? To Rabbi Yonatan Eybeschutz. Ah. He said to Rabbi Yonatan Eybeschutz when he was a kid. I mean the famous stories of Rabbi Yonatan Eybeschutz when he was a kid. All these kid stories of gedolim is also on him. They put it on him, anyways.

Hogras, Hogras ben Levi, there was a guy Hogras ben Levi, he knew how to sing well, but he didn't teach anybody either. תניא, we learned, כשהיה נותן קולו בנעימה, when he sang nicely, so what did he do? מכניס גודלו לתוך פיו, he would put his thumb in his mouth, מניח, this is the אצבע. He would take the אצבע, put it בין הנימין, here in the middle, between the teeth and the lips, someplace there, and that's how he would sing. עד שהיו אחיו הכהנים נזקרין בבת ראש לאחוריהם. When he would sing, it would be so loud that the כהנים were just scared, they just, when they hear him sing, they would go jump back. That's how a special chazan he was. Screaming loud. He didn't have to teach anybody, I guess nobody could do it. Nobody could do it. Okay.