Mir halten in anheyb סעיף ב'. Translation: holding the beginning of סעיף ב'. The kashya that the Rabbi asked was it says in in in Midrash, in Yalkut, and it says also in the Zohar that ויגדלו הנערים, when it says that Yaakov and Esav grew up, it doesn't only mean b'gashmiyut they grew, nu nu, let's go, let's go, it also means that they grew b'ruchniyut. And from the Zohar is mashma not only they grew b'ruchniyut in potential, that Esav also had a potential of being great, but he actually was great b'ruchniyut. Later on, קלקל במעשיו, later on he spoiled it for himself, he did bad things, but be'etzem he was good. And the she'eilah the Rabbi asked, how can you say that when the Chazal tell us that when she walked by a בית עבודה זרה while she was they were still inside Rivkah's stomach, Esav wanted to go to עבודה זרה? That shows that Esav from the beginning on was already a person that had shaychut to עבודה זרה. So how do you say that Vayigdelu? And even in the pasuk itself, it says ויגדלו הנערים, they grew, and the teitch is always right away: in which way did they grow, what happened when they grew? ויהי עשו איש יודע ציד איש שדה, עשו עשו was into the field. So how could you say Vayigdelu means that they grew in ruchniyut? Especially the Zohar says that Avraham was mechanech them and they kept mitzvot, and they means Yaakov and Esav. Esav also, when Esav was born lechatchilah, before he was born he was already a a rasha, he was already somebody who wanted to go to עבודה זרה. So let's start סעיף ב'. We started it yesterday, but we just went through one line. Lichora, but we can farentfern the ערשטע שאלה now, the first question that we had, that how does it fit to the fact that in the stomach he still already then wanted to go to עבודה זרה, we could answer it like this. חז\"ל זאגן אז תינוק במעי אמו מלמדים אותו כל התורה כולה, that a baby in the mother's stomach they teach it all the Torah. כיון שבא לאויר העולם, when he goes out into the world, which mean when he's the moment he's born, בא מלאך, a malach comes וסטרו על פיו, gives him a little patch on his mouth, ומשכחו כל התורה כולה, makes him forget the whole Torah. ויש לומר טעמא יקרי, the Rebbe says what's takeh the reason, why does he make him forget? Or what's the, you know, wouldn't it be much better if the malach wouldn't make you forget? What's the inyan, why does the Eibershter make why does the malach make you forget? So the Rebbe says the main reason could be is because אויב ער וועט ניט פארגעסן כל התורה כולה, if you wouldn't forget the whole Torah, וועט פעלן זיין בחירה חפשית. There'll be missing in his free choice. עס דארף דאך זיין נתתי לפניך את החיים ואת הטוב ואת המות ואת הרע באופן שוה. The Eibershter has to give us the good and the bad, the life and the death, equally. Imagine if a person would be born with being a big talmid chacham, knowing the whole Torah. So automatically, he has more to the good side than to the bad side, so that it's not a balance of power. And the Eibershter wants that the Yid should have a free choice, you have a balance of power. So mimela, the Eibershter didn't make it we should remember the Torah. Why is it not born He is born with נפש אלקית, but it's not completely in. Yeah, but in that time is פטור, פטור from the mitzvot. So, but then when the yetzer tov comes in, then he he fights him. So when he's born, he's not חייב במצות yet. When he becomes חייב במצות, he has the balance of power, he has a נפש אלקית. Now, but he's asking Lichora a good shaila on the other hand, that by being coming Bar Mitzvah and already having being involved in all the gashmiusdike things, so you already the gashmius has an over a hand over the over the ruchnius, over the good part. So then it's not a balance of power. That's why the Eibershter wants us to teach the children, so that while they're being small, they should also have the ruchnius also. That's as we always tell, the Rebbe said this by farbrengen once, but I remember as I'm a shaliach, and so we're talking to some this lady about her child, sending her to to Hebrew school, to idishe, to a Jewish school, to a frumah school. So, you know, we discussed that, and later on by farbrengen I remember later on I heard as the Rebbe said, we said this on our own, but the Rebbe explained it once. Her ta'anah was

she's not going to send her school kids to a school. She wants the child to choose on his own. So when he grows up and he decides to wants to go and be frum and go to a frumah school, gezunterheyt, I'll let him, I'm not going to mix with him. If he wants, not. But if I'm going to send to a frumah school when he is small, then automatically I'm pushing him to one side. I want to give him free choice. I want the child to choose himself. So that's why I'm not sending him to the school. So know what the answer is, the Rebbe said by a farbrengen once, what you have to tell him is like this: If you don't send him to a frum school, you're not giving him a free choice. Imagine they raised all their life till 13, till 14, till 15 only in a fraye school, public school. So all they see is the gashmiyus, they have no idea of ruchniyus. And then when they're gonna be 15 years old you come to them, you know, you could learn Torah, you could mekayem mitzvot, he'll look at you like you're crazy. There's no chance that he's going to do it, because he's so used to this. If you give send him to a frum school, as much as the frum school teaches him about mitzvot, the other side is there anyway. Then maybe we have a balance of power, at least we try. So if you want to give him a free choice and you say let them decide, you have to send him to a frum school. Then you're giving him a choice! He sees what frumkeit is. The gashmiyus and the ta'avot you don't have to give him anything, he sees it anyway. Bederech hateva he's born that way and you see everything there. So now at least you're giving him a balance. But if you're not going to send him to a school, you are not giving him, so your own sevara why your claim not to send him to a frum school is a reason why you should send. So to answer your question, that lechorah takeh that's why there's a chiyuv of chinuch and a chiyuv of of of Talmud Torah for children, so they will also have. And it's still not called the full the נפש האלקית, it's there, by the brit it comes in, or before also. It's not full because you're not מחוייב במצוות. But anyway, getting back here, the Rebbe says the reason why this happens is because the Aibershter wants us to have a free choice. So the malach makes you forget. Now, so since we know now that in the stomach the malach teaches you the Torah and you forget, דערפון איז אויך פארשטאנדיג בעניננו, so we understand לגבי our ענין, אז בשעת לידה איז די הנהגה צו רייסן צו עבודה זרה נשכח געווארן פון עשו. Just like when you're born you forget the תורה, עשו, who wanted to go to עבודה זרה while he was in his mother's stomach, when he was born, forgot that, כדי ער זאל האבן בחירה חפשית. The same what we said, you forget the Torah to have free choice, so Esav, when he came out, if he would come out with remembering the feeling he had that he wants to go to עבודה זרה, so again there's no free choice. If he'd remember the whole Torah there is no free choice, because the good side is stronger. He's born לכתחילה with a lot of Torah. That can't be, so he has to forget. And when Esav came out from the mother's stomach, and if he would remember the עבודה זרה, that means now he's starting off his life with a netiyah to עבודה זרה, so then this side, the bad side, is stronger. So mimela obviously he forgot it. Huh? A patsh for the Torah. The מלאך פאטשט for the Torah. Yeah. Not to the But the malach he patsh is only a a technicality how he forgets. The point is that the Eibershter wants you to forget, the Eibershter makes it you should forget the Torah. You're only asking what makes you forget, what made him forget עבודה זרה? I don't know, yeah, the מלאך פאטשט him or some other way. The malach is just a it's only a technique how to forget. So here there must be some other way. Did he learn Torah? Huh? Did he learn Torah in the stomach? See, we'll see in a second. So he forgot that too! But how could he have wanted This is all part We didn't finish the sichah yet. That's This is what the sichah is going to be all about! But what the Rebbe says that must be that he forgot עבודה זרה, cuz if not, the same problem we have if you don't forget the Torah because it won't be in the balance of power, if you don't forget the עבודה זרה again there's no balance of power, so he's born with a power of of of of עבודה זרה. So he must have forgotten it. Oh, if he forgot it, און דער חינוך פון אברהם וכו' האט געווירקט בכל התוקף. So Avraham's chinuch helped him. So now lechorah we have an answer. The kushya was: How do you say that Avraham's chinuch helped him and he grew up to be great, when he was already noteh to עבודה זרה in the mother's stomach? So the Rebbe says: What's the problem? In his mother's stomach he was noteh to עבודה זרה and that was over. Then he came out. He came out, he was neutral, didn't have any special powers either way. Avraham Avinu was mechanech him, and like I said before, if you're mechanech a child you give him koach, so he was mechanech him and he became ויגדלו and he became big. Ela mai, later on he spoiled it for himself. He became, cuz later on he had free choice. But it answers the first sheilah. Again, the first sheilah was that the pasuk says the the Zohar the Midrash says ויגדלו means he grew up ruchniyus, when it says that he was already bad before he was born. So the answer is: Yes, before he was born he had his bad נטיה, his bad how would you call it, bad side to him and that was stronger, but when he was born, that went away. So he was born like a regular kid with the potential, the possibility of both, and Avraham was mechanech him and made him a gadol, and he became great, he became good. Later on, he spoiled it. So lechora answered the, it doesn't answer the second sheilah. What was the second sheilah? It doesn't fit to the pasuk. The pasuk says ויגדלו הנערים, and what happened? Esav became a איש ציד. So how could you say ויגדלו means ruchniyus when it says clearly ויגדלו and he became a hunter? And not only a hunter, a hunter that that killed people, and a hunter that צד בפיו is he tricked, he tricked Yitzchak by asking him narishe questions, stupid questions, and trying to show, anyway he was bad right in the beginning. So the ויגדלו means he grew in in bad things. How does the Zohar say? That sheilah is not answered. But the other sheilah, that how does it fit to the fact that he was already bad in the beginning, that you can answer. He was bad before he was born, and then he changed. Didn't he sort of answer it like the Rebbe said this morning, until he was 13 he had he had a choice, so now he has a choice, and we're trying to bring in that he should have somewhat of a balance of ruchniyus and gashmiyus, because gashmiyus is anyway... No. So when he's going to be 13, he's going to be able to choose. No, but we're saying ויגדלו means he grew in ruchniyus. It means he was good. That means in the beginning he started off as good. That's what we're saying. ויגדלו, he started off as good, and then later קלקל במעשיו, later he spoiled it. So the kashya was, of the first kashya, how can you say he started off as good when he started off all the way in the beginning as bad? That is answered. That before he was born he takeh was bad, but when he started off his life as a human being, when he was born, he started off good. Started off like everybody else. And with training, he grew up to be good. And later on, he became bad again. He decided to go bad, that he could go off the derech, he had bechirah chofshis. How does he say that? What? Because the pasuk says... No. The pasuk says ויגדלו, the Rebbe says, ויגדלו הנערים ויהי עשו איש ציד. That means the No, not later on. ויגדלו, it says ויגדלו הנערים. How does Rashi taytsh on ויגדלו הנערים on this pasuk? Does anyone remember? I can't say from Chitas because it's last year's Chitas, because we're not Parashat Toldot yet. What does Rashi say? ויגדלו הנערים ויהי עשו איש ציד, and יעקב איש תם. So Rashi says that when they ויגדלו, when the ויגדלו took place, then you could start seeing the difference. That means when they were small, you couldn't see. And ויגדלו, now you saw the difference. That means the ויגדלו, רש״י learns the pshat the ויגדלו means עשו איש שדה and יעקב איש תם. So if you learn that the ויגדלו means עשו איש שדה, so it doesn't fit to saying ויגדלו means he became good beruchniyus, when the Torah says ויגדלו, became bad. ויגדלו איש שדה. So lechora, al kol panim the first sheilah is answered that he forgot his עבודה זרה things just like you forget the Torah, for the same reason.

אבער דאס איז נישט מספיק, the Rebbe says it's not enough, weil סוף סוף האט די הנהגה במעי אמו איבערגעלאזט א פעולה אין אים. As much as we'll say he forgot the feeling of עבודה זרה that he had, even if he forgot it, there was still some trace left in him of עבודה זרה. How do we know it? It left a טבע פון ציען זיך צו עבודה זרה, left a nature of being pulled to עבודה זרה. וואס האט געבראכט אז ער זאל זיך פורש זיין צו עבודה זרה בגדלותו, which was the reason why later on when he grew up, this made him go to עבודה זרה because the trace of what he had in the mother's stomach stayed. ווי עס שטייט בפירוש אין זוהר, it says in זוהר, אז די שפעטערדיקע פרישה לא עבודה זרה בגדלותו, that the fact that later on, when he grew up later, he's pulled to עבודה זרה, איז געקומען בגין כך, came because וואס דאס איז דוכתא דאחזיה ליה, that's the place he saw originally. Because in his mother's stomach he wanted that, that's why it happened later. מצד זיין רייסן זיך צו עבודה זרה במעי אמו, because in his mother's stomach he pulled to עבודה זרה. Which be'emet, I don't want to say this is exactly the same thing because it's not the same, but I just want to give an example. It says that sometimes the mother's behavior while she's pregnant with the baby could have an effect on the child. What does it say, why did Acher go out l'tarbut ra'ah, why did Acher become a rasha? Who was Acher originally, what was his name? Don't everyone scream together. Meir. Meir was his talmid. He's actually mentioned in Pirkei Avot with his real name. Elisha ben Avuya. Elisha ben Avuya. And he was a great tana. He was from the only, not the only one, but from the few only people in Jewish history who were tzadikim who went off the derech. There are very few. Reshaim who became tzadikim, that we have thousands, millions, I don't know, people becoming ba'alei teshuvah, becoming tzadikim, you had. In the Gemara, who in the Gemara was a rasha, was a robber? A robber, a thief, a rotz'each, and then later he became Reish Lakish, he became the greatest, one of the greatest Amora'im. That you have plenty of reshaim doing teshuvah, but tzadikim turning away, we have very few. He's one. Who else could just יוחנן כהן גדול, שימש פ' שנה, he was 80 years a Kohen Gadol. Imagine, those years to be a Kohen Gadol 80 years meant he was a real tzadik. Because had he been a bluffer, not a real tzadik, we just thought he was tzadik, what would have happened? He wouldn't have lived through the year. He lived for 80 years! 80 times he went through in the Kodesh HaKodashim and he became a Tzeduki. So that's what that's another one, which is very, very few of such people that we have. Then later generations we have from the one that was a mekubal. What was his name? Moshe di Leon? No. Yeah. Anyone remember? No, Moshe di Leon, I think. There's another one called, again now see I'm confusing it already, Moshe di Larina. Who remembers then which of the which one found the Zohar? No one knew of the Zohar till he found it, and then we came and then there was a whole controversy. Some people claimed that he wrote it himself and it's a bluff, that it's Rashbi. Later the Arizal said that it was the Rashbi, and that's how we know. It was Moshe di Larina. I think it's Moshe di Larina. He was a big mekubal. And then you had Moshe di Leon, I think I'm not confusing the two, but that he was a big mekubal, and he tried to bring Mashiach, and he worked very hard, not like the Rebbe worked very hard and is working very hard in telling us to do maasim tovim and to do mitzvot, and to מקרב יידן and we'll bring Mashiach, tried to do it through kabbalah, through קבלה מעשית, and through all kinds of shemot and things, and he went all the way into highest madregot, he was a big mekubal, and he almost succeeded, but the Satan saw that he's pretty, pretty close to it, and the Satan doesn't want it and didn't want it, so he said he put up all his כחות against him, and the end was that he succeeded, the Satan, and what happened to him? He became יצא לתרבות רעה, and he became frei and it's terrible things that But it's very, very seldom. And then eventually he became a rotz each, I think, even, and all in this, and and obviously Mashiach didn't come. Looks like it. Anyway, so what did I start saying? This is just I went derech agav.

It says what was one of the causes that caused Acher to turn away? What was the official cause? What was the official one? Ah? What was the official one? What was the, what the Gemara says? What did he do? What did he Says he saw a few things. Okay, one of the things the Gemara says he saw somebody go take off a He did two things. His father sent him to do שילוח הקן, so he did כיבוד אב and שילוח הקן, and by both it says אריכון ימיך, and he saw the guy die on the spot. So he said, he stopped believing. He made a mistake, cuz the pasuk when it says למען יאריכון ימיך, יום שכולו ארוך means לעתיד לבוא, it means in עולם הבא, it doesn't mean here. But anyway he became That's one thing. Then there's another thing about him, which was also a cause. He was from the four guys שנכנסו לפרדס. There was Elisha ben Avuya, Ben Azai, Ben Zoma, and Rabbi Akiva. So אלישע בן אבויה יצא לתרבות רעה, when he did that was too much for him and he went away. And Ben Zoma is died, one became a meshuga, and רבי עקיבא נכנס בשלום ויצא בשלום, came out. But then it says another reason. This is what I'm trying to get to. It says he later on, because his mother, when she was pregnant with him, once smelled, had a craving for something that's not kasher, and what's the din? What do you have to do? You have to give her, because her life was in danger, it's פיקוח נפש דוחה כל התורה כולה. And they gave her. But because it was not kasher, that caused a bad nature in the child. Imagine! The Rebbe brings this in לגבי in Tanya it says twice, one in the first chelek, one in Iggeret HaKodesh. It says that if פיקוח נפש, if you have to eat טרפה פיקוח נפש, נעשה היתר גמור. The treifah becomes heter. And then it says heter gamur, complete heter, and the word gamur is written in brackets. The Rebbe says why? Because it's not really, really gamur. It still remains with some bad thing in it, and the Rebbe brings this Yerushalmi that the reason why he was יצא לתרבות רעה because he So even the mother's behavior in eating non-kasher food has an has an effect on the child. Then this is not noge'a to the to this inyan here, but there's another reason it says. Another reason, yeah, yeah, there's another reason it says what made him go לתרבות רעה, and that's very noge'a to know, because the other reasons not noge'a to us. We don't plan to go to Pardes, so it's not that we have to be afraid we shouldn't go to Pardes because, but there's another thing it says. Two things. They found books. They found goyishe books falling out of his pocket. In other words, he read goyishe books. I don't know, some of both. Says יונים, ספרי יונים. So it's usually philosophy, but it's not only that, he read goyishe books, and that caused him to be, this great tzaddik, the great tanna, read goyishe books, and because of that. Then it says another thing: he sang goyishe songs. He listened to goyishe music. He listened to goyishe music, so this tanna, Elisha ben Avuyah, who was a tanna who's quoted in Pirkei Avot, he went out לתרבות רעה. But this is just a horaah in avodah. It's not an avodah, it's an avodah, it's a horaah how terrible it is to listen to goyishe music. Besides the din that you're not allowed to listen to music bichlal, unless it's Yiddishe music, for a different reason. It says when the חורבן בית המקדש, חכמים made a gezeirah you can't listen to music. Ayei, how we play always music and everything? So it says if it's music of pesukim, if it's music of of of of hisorerus, it's a music of תורה ומצוות, and every time you listen to Yiddishe music you could always say it gives you a gefil, it makes, we can געפינען אזא תירוץ. But if you listen to goyishe music, then you're not allowed to bichlal, there's a issur, chachamim made a issur. But besides that, to goyishe music, it has an effect on the person, more even than the books. When you read some goyishe book, it has an effect on you. Not only it has an effect on you, what happens is you become mekushar to the author. I don't know if anybody wants to become mekushar to some goy, who knows, some שווארצער גוי or whatever. You become mekushar, it says, because a person puts himself into the, if a person wants to write a good book, he has to live it. He can't just write it, you got to put yourself into it completely, and then when you read it, you get the guy, so you get mekushar to him. I remember the Rebbe once spoke about Shakespeare, and he said, דא ווערט מען פארבונדן, you get mekushar to Shakespeare, he said, וואס ער איז געווען א שיכור'ער גוי. That's the רבי'ס לשון, ער איז געווען א שיכור'ער גוי. Obviously the Rebbe knew, he was a drunk. And now they make him holy and they learn his stuff and the gantz'e meforshim on it and colleges, it's nisht normal. So that you become mekushar. So as much as you become mekushar to a person by reading his books, you become mekushar to a person who made a song even more, because as much as a person puts himself into a book, a person puts himself into music, into a song, much more. That's because music, what does the Alter Rebbe say? It's the pen of the neshama, the pen of the soul, the pen of the heart, and you put yourself in. So this is what happened to Acher. Anyway, getting back here, so he says here, the Rebbe says here that it says in Zohar of what made Eisav later do עבודה זרה because of what happened in his mother's stomach that he saw עבודה זרה, that he tried to go to עבודה זרה. So obviously we see that there was a trace left, so we can't give a reason that he forgot completely, that b'emes he became big later, בגשמיות וברוחניות. Ay, it says in his mother's stomach, good, his mother's stomach is one thing and that was stopped, that was out and later he became like a normal guy. Can't be, because that left a trace. ס'איז על דרך ווי דאס איז אין צד הקדושה אן, like it's in the good side, the kedushah side, אז דער לערנען כל התורה כולה במעי אמו, when you learned the whole Torah in your mother's stomach, אף על פי אז דערנאך משכח כל התורה כולה, even though later you forget it, makes him forget, איז ווייל דער לימוד במעי אמו לאזט איבער א רושם אין דעם קינד אז עס זאל זיך דערנאך ציען צו דער תורה. That the reason you can ask a sheilah, if the malach makes you forget the learning, why is it why does he teach it to you? What's the purpose? What's the purpose of the malach teaching you the Torah and then making you forget? So don't teach lechatchilah. So the answer is, he says, because when you learned already, it's left over even though you forget. Al derech, if somebody learns something and he forgets it, and later on, ten years later he learns it again, it's much easier to remember. Not to remember, it comes back to you. So the same thing now, when we learn now, oh, we don't realize it, but it's why is it easy to a certain degree for us to understand it? Because we already learned it once. That means that there's a trace left. So just like in the good side the trace is left, so the bad side also, by him, even even if we'll say what happened in the mother's stomach that he pulled to avodah zarah was forgotten, a trace was left. So if that case, איז הדרא קושיא לדוכתא, so the kashya comes back, ווי זאגט מען אז עשו היה בכלל הגדלים? So how do you say that Esav started off, he grew and he became part of ויגדלו? He became part of the גדולים, and the Rebbe brought from the Midrash before that what does גדולים mean? גדולים goes on the Avot. Basically we're saying he was originally part of the group of the Avot. So really it seems like had he not chosen bad, he would have been would have been Avraham, Yitzchak, Esav and Yaakov. Imagine, we'd have four Avot just like we have four Imahot. We'd have four Avot, Esav also, and Esav spoiled it. But how could you say that when he was originally in the mother's stomach already bad? So how could how could the the Midrash say this? See in the הערה 10, when the Rebbe says in Zohar, it says that the reason he was later bad is because of what happened in his mother's stomach. So he says here that the lashon in the Zohar is דוכתא דאסתחזי ליה, that the reason he later became bad because of the place that he saw earlier, שמזה משמע שזה היה יותר מטבע שרק מוכן לחסרון. It's not only that he had before a possibility, something that was נוטה, meaning the מוכן, ready potential, he actually, it was actually he he he was a person with the feeling of avodah zarah. And later on, even though it went away from him, probably because he forgot it, it still was there. So if azoy, how do we say that he originally is by ויגדלו he became big, big ברוחניות, אלא שקלקל במעשיו? So lechora this is a stirah between these two inyanim.