The topic is the problem with taking interest and the understanding of the heter iska, which is the document that is used when a person does want to be able to take interest and it shouldn't contradict the halacha of the Torah. Now we all know that this class is not a halacha class, so really we're not going to go into the detailed halachos of taking interest and heter iska and these things. What I will do is we will discuss some of the major guidelines, the general guidelines concerning taking interest and what heter iska means, and I will explain some of the details, not in halacha, but as we always do according to the deeper explanation the way it's explained in Chassidus, based on Kabbalah, all the meanings behind these different subjects that we usually discuss. Concerning taking interest, we all know that it's a prohibition of the Torah. When a person takes interest for the loan, the person who takes the interest is over on six lavin, transgresses six negative commandments for taking interest once. The person who gives the interest is not as bad because he's giving it, transgresses three lavin, both taken from the pesukim where the pasuk says, for instance I'll use one pasuk, את כספך לא תתן לו בנשך ובמרבית לא תתן אכלך, to not give your your money for interest and to not take your food for interest. And there are a few pesukim, similar pesukim. So being that the Torah repeats it more than once, each time the Torah repeats it, it's another lav. So if you take interest, you transgress six lavin, which means that in the time of of the Beis Hamikdash, this would be six aveiros that you would have to get malkos. The truth is you probably wouldn't get malkos because anytime you take money that you shouldn't, since you're able to give it back, so you don't actually get the lashes for it, but it's a type of aveirah that deserves, in theory would deserve malkos, and this is six aveiros. The one that gives the interest is over on three aveiros. Anybody else who helps in this transaction with interest, like the person who guarantees the loan, the witnesses who serve as witnesses for the loan, the person who would write the document—in those days they used to have a sofer, a scribe write the document—or any other person, attorney, exactly, any other person who is involved in this transaction also transgresses an aveirah, one lav. So this is how bad it is to take interest. We find from the Chazal, our Chachamim, our sages, when they talk about the prohibition of taking interest, they say how terrible it is. In one place, the Chachamim say that if you take interest, it shows you don't don't believe in Hashem. In a different place, it says if you take interest, it shows that you throw off yourself the עול מלכות שמים, you throw off yourself the yoke of the kingdom of Hashem. Another place it says that if you take interest, then it shows that you don't believe in Yetzias Mitzrayim, that you don't believe in the exodus of Mitzrayim, just by taking interest. All these things are learned out from different pesukim, but this is what the Chazal tell us. If a person is careful with interest, then this shows that he accepts the yoke of Hashem. If he's careful with the aveirah of interest, that shows that he shows that he believes in Yetzias Mitzrayim. Another place it says if a person takes interest, he will not get up תחיית המתים. When the dead will be revived, the resurrection of the dead, he will not get up. A different place it says that if a person takes interest, נכסיו מתמוטטין, his possessions will fall apart. All these terrible things it says concerning taking interest. Now what is actually taking interest? What consists of taking interest? From the Torah, the prohibition of taking interest the way it's in the Torah, מדאורייתא, מן התורה, is if you make up before you take the loan, you make up that the person will pay you more than he took. And that is called ריבית קצוצה. The word ribit means interest; ריבית קצוצה means set interest, interest that was set up before. And if you take that interest, that is called ריבית דאורייתא. That is exactly what the Torah meant. If a person didn't make up to pay extra, but afterwards nevertheless he gives more than he took, that is called ריבית דרבנן. The Rabbanan said, prohibited doing this, or it's called sometimes אבק ריבית. אבק ריבית means the dust of ribit. אבק ריבית, the dust of ribit, which means not the real ribit. But to us that makes no difference. To us, when the Chachamim said not to do something, then it's just as bad as if the Torah said. We can't do it, and that's it. And this means even if it's not just paying back something, even if it means giving an extra good word, it's called ריבית דברים. Interest through words. Saying thank you when someone gives you a loan is a big she'elah because you're adding something which you wouldn't say. To say a nice word to somebody because he gave you a loan, which otherwise you wouldn't have done. If you would say hello to him anyway and if you would say a good word to him anyway, no problem. But if you're doing it because he gave you a loan, that's called ריבית דברים, you're not allowed to do that either. And even if the person who gives the ribit says, \"I don't mind. I'm plenty, I have a lot of money. I don't care to give you ribit,\" it doesn't help. The prohibition is just the same. And it makes no difference if the person who gives the ribit is poor. See, one would think since if the person who gives the interest is poor, then you're taking money away from the poor. Makes no difference whether he's poor, or him and the person who gave him the loan are both equal, both poor or both rich. And it makes no difference if the person who gives is a rich man. A person who gives is rich to a poor man. So here, who cares? He has a lot of money, and he wants to pay him interest. And some people might even think this is a good way of making the person make a living without embarrassing him. He's poor and he'll have to go collect tzedakah. Here I have an easy way: I'll take a loan from him, I'll give him back more than I took, he'll have made some money in a very nice, respectful way. Why not do it? It's still the same thing. It's איסור ריבית. And it's the same, you're not allowed to do it, and all the prohibitions and all the discussions that we talk about ribit would apply to the to this too. Ribit, interest, is not only when we talk about money. It also refers to objects. If I'm going to borrow a chair, and I'll tell the guy, \"You know what? Give me a chair for a week, and because of that, I'll give you back two chairs.\" That is ribit. If you make up before, it's ריבית דאורייתא. If you don't make up, but you do it anyway later, it's ריבית דרבנן, but it's ribit. The same is with food. If you borrow a certain amount of food and you give back more food, that is aveirah of ribit. And because of that, the Chachamim made an issur, which we call the issur of סאה בסאה. סאה בסאה means they said you're not allowed to borrow a סאה. סאה is a certain measurement. You're not allowed to buy, let's say, borrow a 100 lb of wheat to say that I will return to you a 100 lb of wheat. You're not allowed to do that. Because we never know at the time you return it, the prices might go up, and you'll be returning to him the same amount, but with a bigger value, and that's ribit. The only thing is, the Chachamim did say that if it's a neighborly thing, that one neighbor wants to borrow from another neighbor, as would happen, you're out of flour, you're out of eggs, and you go and borrow, so then the Chachamim said you're allowed to borrow a certain measurement to give back the same amount, and we don't care if the price price goes up. And the reason for it is that Rema says the reason is because people are not makpid. People don't really care, so it doesn't really mean anything. The Alter Rebbe in Shulchan Aruch says something similar. He says that by סאה בסאה, this prohibition of giving a certain measurement in order to pay back the same measure same measurement the chachamim were not machmir. So if it's only a small amount between neighbors, there is no problem. The question that will come up is, what about giving back a little bit more? See, here we're talking about giving back the same amount, and the question is the prices might be different. What about giving back a little bit more? You borrowed from your neighbor a half a bottle of milk, and the next day you want to return the half a bottle of milk. Must you look exactly to the line that it shouldn't be, chas veshalom, a drop more because it'll be ribit? There are some say yes, so the best thing to do is give a little bit less. But that's not so good either. On the other hand, many poskim, don't get scared, many poskim say that based on the Rema that said that since we're talking about small amounts and we're talking about neighbors, people are not makpid, they don't care, and therefore it's not even considered that you're giving ribit, the same will apply when you give back, you don't have to look exactly. But if you know for sure you're giving more, let's say you borrow a bottle of a half a bottle of milk, and you're going to return a whole bottle, that you taka shouldn't do. But if you look, they gave or took the half, you'll give a little bit more, you don't you don't have to be makpid. But outright much more, taka you shouldn't do, because this is ribit. Because ribit is not only money. Actually, the Torah happens to mention ribit kesef, interest of money, and ochel, it mentions food, that you can't do it by food either.

This din of ribit, of not being able to take interest, is only if you take interest from a Jew. From a goy, the pasuk says, \"לנכרי תשיך,\" that from a goy you are allowed to take interest. Not only you're allowed, the Rambam says it's a mitzvah. It's a mitzvah to take interest from a goy. Some even explain pshat in the Rambam that the Rambam holds that it's a mitzvah to lend a goy money in order to be able to take interest from him. Chachamim said that a person should not take interest from a goy, and the reason is not because of the problem of interest. The reason is because if you lend money to a goy, take interest, you'll get close to the goy. And when you get close to the goy, you might learn from him, you might take an example, דילמא יליף ממעשיו. So the chachamim wanted we should stay away from the goyim, not to mix with the goyim. Like many other halachot that the chachamim said that we shouldn't do because we shouldn't come to socialize with the goyim, and then who knows, it says you might marry a goyah, chas veshalom. So they אסר'ד to eat goyishe bread, and you can't eat goyishe cooked food, בישול עכו״ם. So they also said not to take interest from a goy. The only thing they did say that if it's כדי חייו, if it's enough and not that you need it for your livelihood, you don't have parnasah otherwise, or if a talmid chacham, and a talmid chacham will not learn from their behavior, they're allowed. Nevertheless, the Rama writes that nowadays, being that we live amongst the goyim, and it's normal practice to lend money and to take interest, and this is regular business, so this is not something that nowadays will bring us to learn from them, because it's not worse than doing other business, selling him products. A person has a store, and goyim come in, you can't sell him? There's no such thing. So this became normal practice. So nowadays there is no problem in lending a goy with interest. And since there is no problem, so now we're back to the mitzvah. There is a mitzvah to lend a goy on ribbis, to take interest from a goy. Now the truth is there were some people who used this against the Yidden. There are some people who claimed, look, look what this, between themselves they don't take interest, but from the goy, they're going to suck out all their money. And isn't it true what the world says, the goyim say, that the Jews use the goyim to suck out their money and take out their money, and through the goyim they would become rich? Here you see there's a clear pasuk in the Torah that you should take interest from a goy. The truth is this is not true at all, this is not the pshat. Now I'll explain what it means, I think I once explained it in a different shiur. To take interest is not abnormal. To take interest is very, very normal. This is the way the whole world works. This is commerce, this is business. If there wouldn't be such a thing as interest, I think the whole economy would go down the drain. The whole economy is based on lending, borrowing money from the banks on interest, and then that's how you make money, that's how you sell, everything is based on interest, there's nothing wrong with taking interest. So when the Torah says you could take interest from a goy, there's nothing wrong. So the Torah's not saying you should behave to a goy in a bad way, you should take away the goy's money. All the Torah says, with a goy, you should behave normal, as the goyim between themselves. What can they complain that we take interest from them? Don't the goyim take interest one from another? It's only normal to take interest. So the Torah says to us, from the goy, take interest. The Torah just asks us that from a Yid, we want you to behave abnormal. Do something which is not normal, which regularly you shouldn't do it because that's not a normal way, natural way of behavior, but because he's a Yid, the Torah wants us to go a little bit higher than normal. So it's not the pshat that, not that, to take interest from a Yid, that's the normal way, the Torah says to a goy you should behave in a bad way, that's not the pshat, it's just the opposite. The Torah just says to a goy you should behave in a normal way, take from him interest, it's a good idea to take, because that's the way you'll make money, and that's normal, like the goyim do among themselves. The Torah just says behave to another Yid a little bit beyond normal, different than normal, abnormal, in a good way, because it's a Yid. Which is similar to another thing that we find, which I always use the same example because it brings out a point, that people complain against what it says in the Gemara, but many people don't know that it says in the Gemara in the outside world, but it's brought down in the first first chapter of Tanya, right at the end of Tanya, and a lot of people complained about it, but it's taken from the Gemara. The Alter Rebbe in Tanya brings from the Gemara that whatever a goy does, any good deed a goy does, is only for his own benefit. He's very selfish, he does it just for himself. And when they takeh printed this in Tanya, there was a big tumult: How could you print such a thing? This causes antisemitism to say such a thing that goyim can't, so Yidden, you say, could do things just because it's good to do, it's the right thing to do, but גוים, כל מה דעבדי אומות העולם לגרמייהו עבדי, it's taken from the Gemara in Bava Basra, that everything that the goyim do, they do it for themselves for a selfish reason. So they made a whole tumult about it. The pshat there is exactly the same way. It doesn't mean we're saying that goyim are bad and goyim are selfish, that's not what it says. The pshat is, it is impossible naturally, physically impossible that a person should do something and there should be no selfish reason involved. As much as you do something for somebody else, naturally, because that's the way Hashem created us, naturally we have to help ourselves. If someone helps somebody, and you say, \"Why did you help him?\" \"Well, I pashut couldn't stand how that person suffers.\" Now, that's a very nice comment, halavai all people should be that way, but there is selfishness there. I can't stand to see someone suffer, so I'm trying to help myself, because I want to take, I can't take it. Someone helps somebody in the street because he fell and hurt himself, and he just ran over and he helped him to the hospital, why? Because I can't stand blood. So that makes oh that's natural. The nature of a human being is, not only of a human being, of everything in the world is, that you are involved. When a person, \"I love somebody. I love you.\" Well, that shows how much I care about you. True, but you know what it really means? How much I love myself. I feel good about you. I feel I love you means you satisfy me. So really it's myself. It's impossible for a person or a human being to undress himself from being selfish in anything that you do. So when it says in Gemara and in Tanya that a goy, whatever he does is selfish, they're not putting them down, saying that they're bad. They're normal, that's what we're saying. Goyim are normal. Goyim will do things the way the natural, normal way is. But it says that is that a Yid is able to do something, and Hashem wants a Yid to do something that shouldn't be selfish at all. He shouldn't be himself involved at all. He shouldn't Now, that's not normal, that's not possible, so it says in Tanya, but because a Yid has a neshama, and a neshama is a חלק אלוקה ממעל ממש, a part of Hashem, so Hashem says, \"Yes, because you have a neshama, you are able to overcome that and do something purely purely because Hashem said so, purely purely to help another Yid, help another person.\" We're able to do it. But not we're saying that we're good and they're bad. We're saying they're good and normal, and we're Hashem expects of us to be a little bit higher than normal, and gives us the power. But not that we're saying they're bad. And the same thing is concerning to interest. We're not saying that the Torah doesn't say, to a goy you should wipe out his money, see how much money you could get out of the goy, that's not the pshat. With a goy you behave normal, because it's normal and natural to take interest. Just for a Yid, Hashem says, \"I don't want you to take any interest, I want you to behave in a higher madreigah, not to take interest even though it's natural and normal to take interest.\"

But after all is said and done that we're not allowed to take interest, we all know that there is such a thing called a היתר עיסקא. היתר עיסקא, which is a document that permits us to lend money and to take interest, and we get more than what we put. The word היתר עיסקא means the permission because it's an investment, the permission because it's a business deal. The word עיסקא means a business deal. Now, in order to understand what happens when we have the היתר עיסקא, let's understand first the concept of עיסקא. When you invest in someone's business, what is there? How is that permitted? And from there we'll get to what the היתר עיסקא is. Normally, when you invest in someone's business, you say, \"Here's money, and I hope to make money. I'm investing in your business. I'm giving you money, I'm giving you $1,000, and I hope to make profit.\" Now, at first glance, what happens here? I give you $1,000, I lend you basically $1,000, and you will give me back the $1,000 plus you will give me back $1,000 plus the profit, which will be another $100. So it sounds like it's a it's interest. But the truth is, depends how you do it. A loan, the difference in the concept of a loan is if I give you money that you must return. If I lend someone money, I don't care what happened to that money. If I lend someone money and the moment he takes it from me, I say, \"Now I gave you $100, I lent it to you.\" The guy walks out and loses the money on the spot. Well, he'll come later and claim, \"No, I lost the money.\" Too bad! I mean, I lent you the money. Money that I lent means that it has to come back to me. You are responsible to give that back to me. If I give you a פיקדון, I tell you, \"I want to give you uh to hold for me some money, you are going to be my שומר. I want you to watch something for me. I'll give you $1,000 to watch for me.\" There it's different. If I give you money to watch, there are different levels. There is a שומר חנם, a שומר שכר. But a שומר חנם, let's say you don't pay me, I don't pay you for watching, then there is halachah, if you lost it, you don't have to pay me. If it got stolen from you, you don't have to pay me. A שומר חנם is patur from גניבה ואבידה, he doesn't have to pay. But a loan, you have to pay me. So if I give somebody money, I invest, and I tell the person, \"You know, here's an investment. Now, if I make money, that means I'll get back my money plus I'll make money. If there is a loss in the business, then I lost it.\" That's not a loan. That's why it's not a problem, that's a business. But usually, people who invest in business don't want to do that. People don't want to give their money putting their out putting themselves out that there might be a loss and they're going to lose their money. So the Chachamim said like this, you have to hold that a little bit close, the Chachamim said like this that when a person invests money in someone's business, they said what happens really here is what we establish happens that the money is considered half loan and half פיקדון. Half loan, and half deposit that he's watching it for me. So if I give him let's say $100, $100 of it is a loan. And that loan means that he has to return it to me, no matter what. A loan you must return whether whether whatever happens. The other half remains my money, and you are watching it for me. Now, when this person takes the hundred dollars and does business with it, and it makes profit, so we share the profit 50/50. Why 50/50? Because half of the profit came from his money, because I lent him the money, so it's his money now. So his money makes profit, so he gets the profit. The other half of the money remains mine, so it's my money that's making profit. If it's my money that's making profit, then that profit comes to me. So when I invest money with somebody, it's 50/50, 50% profit, there is no problem with interest, because it's my money that's making profit, it's a פיקדון, it's my money. On the other hand, if that money is lost, what happens if there was a loss in the business? According to this, if there's a complete loss in the business, then half of the money he has to return to me, because half of it was a loan, and a loan he must return. So let's say if I invested $100, $50 he must give back, there's no profit obviously, it was a loss, the other 50 he doesn't give back. Since he was a שומר, since he was only a watchman over it, and a watchman is patur if there is a loss, so I lost $50. But if I do get profit, there is no interest. The only problem with the interest that could be here is, why is he doing business for me? If 50% is mine, so $50 are mine, how am I making profit if he's doing the work? I'm giving him $100 and I'm telling him, take the $100, invest it, do something with it, and make money. So the profit of the $50 is my money that's making profit, but who's working? He's working for it. Why is he working for my money? Obviously, because I lent him the other half. Since I lent him the other 50, doing me a favor, and he's working for my money too. Now, that is a problem of the interest, because the fact that he's working for me. Therefore, the right way to do it is to pay him for his work. So if you invest money with somebody, you take 50% profit, you get your money back later, if everything is fine you get your money, because the loan is still there, so he's paying you back, your money he's giving you back, the 50% profit is yours because it's your money. The only problem is, why did he work for your money? Because you lent him, pay him for it. So you pay him a dollar, that's שכר טרחה, that's for your work, and there is no problem. A היתר עיסקא is based on the same concept. What we do is, you lend someone money, and you make a document. In the document, it comes out that half of the money that, let's say you're lending a thou-, you're borrowing $1,000, so the borrower writes, \"I'm bor-, I'm taking $1,000 from this person. Obviously, 500 remains a פיקדון, remains that it's his money, I'm just watching it for him. 500 is a loan to me.\" Now, normally, in this case, if there is a profit, I get 50% of the profit. On the other hand, if there's a loss, I should lose 50%, because the part that's money is mine, I lose. But you put a stipulation in. The guy writes that, \"I take upon myself that if I tell you the money was lost, I promise, I take upon myself, you should, I should not be believed unless I bring two witnesses. And if I don't bring two witnesses, then I shouldn't be believed, and if I'm not believed it's lost, I have to pay.\" Concerning the money that's profit, \"I take upon myself not to be believed in the amount of profit that came unless I swear.\" That's what I write. What do I gain by this? That if later on, there is a loss, and the guy comes, and I come to the guy and I say, \"No, there was a loss,\" but I'm not believed, because I took upon myself not to be believed, so I have to pay him. So, automatically, he doesn't lose anything. The money that's the loan, I have to pay him back anyway, because no matter what. The money that's not a loan, and I claim it's lost, I won't be believed, so I have to, so he gets his money back no matter what. Concerning the profit, now, what happens if there is no profit? Then he won't get any money, but he wants, the reason he lent me the money is because he wants profit. But being that I wrote that I will not be believed in the amount of profit unless I swear, I don't want to swear. So what happens if I don't swear? So there is a stipulation in the document saying that I have a choice to give you a fixed amount instead of going through this whole process of swearing, I have a right to give you a certain amount, a fixed amount, and that's the amount that I want to take interest. So in other words, if I want to give him $1,000 and take $100 interest at the end of the year, so we make this document which says that I'm taking $1,000, 500 is mine, I'm borrowing, 500 remains his, I promise to invest it, and later on, at the end of the year, I will have to make a cheshbon with it. So I, if there's a loss I will have to bring witnesses. If there is a profit, I will have to to swear. So I write, \"You know what? Instead of doing this, I have a choice to give him a fixed amount.\" So I write, \"I will give him a hundred dollars instead of the profit.\" So that's not interest, that's instead of the profit that I made. And that's what we do. But the only thing is this is if the guy is really investing it. What happens if the guy is not investing the money? The guy is not investing the money, then if he has other investments, it's as if I have a share in his investments. What happens if the guy doesn't have other investments? So there are some that hold that we cannot write a היתר עיסקא. If a person wants to borrow money not for investments, and he doesn't have any investments, you cannot borrow money and pay interest based on a היתר עיסקא. But some say you could, because I claimed that I'm going to invest, and if I don't, that's my problem. But the guy who gave me the money, gave it clearly for an investment, with all these stipulations, and at the end, that or you pay him the profit, or you give him the fixed amount which will be, and you have to invest. If you didn't invest, that's your loss. So many, many hold that you're allowed to write this היתר עיסקא, which means the document claimed that it's an investment, and you're allowed to write it to borrow money and pay interest, because it's not really interest, but it's like giving him profit for his investment, but it's a fixed amount because I want to save myself from the trouble. This is the logic that's, in detail, behind the concept of a היתר עיסקא.

I will explain the reason, not the reason, what we gain by having a היתר עיסקא in the from the spiritual outlook. But I want to mention before that something else. When a person takes interest, when you're not allowed to take interest, and he wants to do teshuvah later, the din is that he must give back the money that he took. Well, not all condition, but in many cases that you have to return. You have to return the money. Nevertheless, it says the Chachamim said that you shouldn't take it. The Chachamim said, \"Don't take the money.\" If the borrower wants to give you the if the lender, I mean, the lender comes back to the borrower later and says, \"You know, you paid me back the loan, a hundred dollars plus 10. I wasn't allowed to do it. I just did teshuvah. I want to give you back the ten dollars.\" The Chachamim said, \"Don't take it.\" Why? Because if you'll take it, it'll make it hard for people to do teshuvah. Gemara tells a story, there was this man that wanted to do teshuvah. A פרייער ייד that wanted to do teshuvah. So he told his wife, \"I'm going to do teshuvah. If I'm going to do teshuvah, I will have to return everything I took.\" So his wife says to him, \"If you're going to return, if you're going to do teshuvah, you're going to have to give up everything you own, including your belt, because everything you own was taken by ribit, by interest, and things like that.\" So, you know what he did? He didn't do teshuvah! So the chachamim said, in order for make it easier for people to do teshuvah, don't take it back. So we allow so if the guy doesn't take it back, he could keep it, but he must go and give it to him. You can't just come over and say, \"I want to give it to you,\" and the guy says, \"Okay, don't have to.\" That's not He has to want to give it to him, and the guy could give it back, so then he has it back, and then you're allowed to keep it. There is a spiritual reason why the chachamim said this, besides helping a person do teshuvah. The reason why you should not take the interest back is because, as I said before, when you take interest, you're not stealing money. It's not taking someone else's money. It's natural to take interest. That's normal commerce, normal business. So, if a person takes interest, really, the money is his, naturally. It's just the Torah says that we don't want you to take money that's yours. It's not that Torah says don't steal. Shouldn't connect it, shouldn't say when a person takes it, he's stealing. When the Torah says don't steal, the Torah says don't take someone else's money. When the Torah says don't take interest, the Torah says don't take your money. It's your money, but we don't want you to take it. And when the Torah says that you have to give it back, it doesn't mean that the Torah says give it back because you have in your possession someone else's money. That is not true. The Torah may mean, you have money that belongs to you because you took it as interest, which is normal, and nevertheless, the Torah says, \"I want you to give back to him money that he gave you that belongs to you, but I want you to give it back.\" The Torah says to give it back. In other words, essentially, the money that is taken for interest belongs to the one that took it, but the Torah doesn't want him to have it. Now, being that it belongs to him, now we're going to get into the רוחניותדיגע part of this. If something belongs to me, obviously, I have a mission in doing service of Hashem with that object. We know that any object that belongs to a Yid, a Yid has an obligation to elevate that object. A Yid, we spoke about it in another shiur, a Yid has an obligation to elevate any גשמיותדיגע, physical thing that belongs to him. We know that a Yid has an obligation to elevate himself. We call it in חסידות לברר בירורים, to purify, to take out the ניצוצות הקדושה that are found. Every physical object in this world has holy sparks, and we have to take them out and bring it back to the source by using it for good. And every Yid has certain things that is in his mission. We know the expression that it says a Yid has to be מברר גופו his body, נפש הבהמית his animalistic soul, וחלקו בעולם and his share in the world. Everyone has a share in the world, has a share in things outside of him, but it's his obligation that was put, prescribed for him, to his neshamah, that he has to elevate it. And how do you know which things are mine to elevate? So, whatever hashgachah peratit, whatever came to me, that means it belongs to me, if it's legally legally belongs to me, then it means that it's my job to elevate that object. That's the inyan. Because, and that's the reason I explained last time why it says התורה חסה על ממונם של ישראל, why the Torah cares so much about the Jewish money. Why does the Torah say bal tashchit? You can't destroy something. Who cares if I destroy something? What's the aveirah? Why can't I take this cup and destroy it in the garbage, as it is, just destroy it? It's an aveirah, בל תשחית, you're not allowed to destroy it, why? Because there are holy sparks in here, there is a reason this is here. Now, this means בל תשחית is even if something that doesn't belong to me, something that doesn't belong to anybody, hefker, you're not allowed to destroy it. But besides that, if something belongs to me, then besides the general idea of elevating, I have the mission to elevate it. It was assigned to me to elevate the nitzotzot in this thing. That's why Yaakov Avinu, it says, went back, crossed the river, and was left alone, and had to go through the whole fight with the malach of Esav, with the שר של עשו, and what did he go back for? For פכים קטנים, for a few small jars. What did he go back for? If a person takes ribit, a person has money of interest, being that I explained that in truth it's his, not like what the Torah says it's not his. If you steal money, it's not yours, so it's not your obligation to elevate those sparks, to elevate that object, because it's not yours, you stole it. We said that taking interest is not stealing. Taking interest means you've got money that belongs to you. If it belongs to you, then there is an obligation upon you to elevate the nitzotzot and the money that is from the ribit. So you, it's up to you. The only thing is, the Torah said don't do it. Torah said don't take it, or if you take it, give it back. What does that mean? I, there is an obligation to elevate the sparks of things that belong to you. It's similar to other things which the Torah doesn't allow us to elevate. If I own non-kosher food, so if it's mine, obviously I have an obligation to elevate it, so maybe I should eat it. No, the Torah says in this case the way to elevate it is by not eating it. Things which are אסור בהנאה, things not only you can't eat, you can't even use it, you can't make any use of it. Pesach, חמץ, if I own chas veshalom chas veshalom a yid owned chametz on Pesach, you'll say, well, he owns it, so obviously it shows that it's his. If it's his, he has an obligation to elevate it. True, but the Torah said in this case the way you're going to elevate it is by getting rid of it, which is a different level of elevation, it's a lower level. Like any negative thing that the Torah doesn't want us to do, in that case the way we elevate that object is through not doing it. It, takeh, is not the same type of elevation as if you were able to elevate it in a positive way. If you eat something, you elevate it in a positive way. If it's tereif and you can't eat it, by not eating it you're elevating elevating it, but in a lower type of way, but still you could. Imagine if it would be possible to take something that is forbidden, even though it's mine, but it's forbidden, and there is some way that I could elevate it in a positive way, that would be the best thing. Because the best way to elevate something is that I actually use it for something good. If the Torah says don't, then I can't, and I elevate it by not using it, in a roundabout way. But if there would be a way I could do it in a positive way, the best way to do it. So, a yid, a yid took interest, which means it's his money, legally it's his, and he has it, but he can't use it, because Hashem said no, he has to give it back. If the guy will say to him, you know what? Keep it. Then it'll come back to him and he will be able to elevate it. That's why it's a good idea that the guy should say it, so he will elevate, because it's his. If we would learn that interest is not yours, it's stolen, then there's no inyan in giving it to him, because it's not his, it's not in his, it's not assigned to him to elevate. But because it is his, it is assigned to him, he just can't do it. And if the guy says I want you to keep it, then he's able to elevate it in a positive way. Which is the reason why when we make a היתר עיסקא, this is why if you don't take it back it's good, if you make a היתר עיסקא, what's a היתר עיסקא? The guy lent, borrows money, pays interest, so the guy who lent the money got interest, but in a kosher way. What happens here? He has the money that is his, and if he wouldn't make the היתר עיסקא, he wouldn't be able to use it, he wouldn't be able to take it, and now he's able to take it and able to use it for mitzvot, in a kosher way. So here it's a form of elevating the ניצוצות הקדושה of things that he's able to which belongs to him. And that's the reason why it says, this is על פי חסידות the reason why you should take interest from a goy. The fact the goy comes to you to borrow money and offer you interest, obviously that's השגחה פרטית shows that that money belongs, is assigned to you. He's giving you. If it's assigned to you, take it and use it. If you're not going to take it, then what will happen? That means that something that was assigned to you to elevate, you pushed away. So, if you're not allowed, you're not allowed, but the moment you're allowed, then it's a mitzvah. Because that shows that the fact that a goy is borrowing the money, he needs it, and it's only natural to give interest, so naturally this his money is yours, then take it. And take it, and use it for mitzvot, and use it in the proper way, obviously. So, you will elevate the nitzotzot from that money. That's why there's a inyan of taking interest from a goy. But if it's not from a goy, from a Yid, and it's not in a kosher way, then you're not allowed, even though you're going to elevate the sparks, but it's like someone who will say, \"I'll eat חזיר, because it's my,\" let's say somehow I got, owned it. \"I should eat it because I'll elevate it,\" but the Torah said no, even though it's yours. So, if it's no heter iska, and it's not from a goy, then you're not allowed to, even though this means elevating the ניצוצות.

Besides that, as we said before, if you take interest in the way that you're not allowed, then all these terrible things the Gemara says, it shows that you don't believe in יציאת מצרים, it shows that you throw off yourself ol malchut shamayim, you don't have תחיית המתים. Let's understand why. Let's understand this concept. Why is it that if a person takes interest, he doesn't believe in יציאת מצרים? What has interest got to do with יציאת מצרים? Okay, we'll learn it out from a pasuk, the pasuk puts the two together, big deal, but what's the idea behind it? Why is it that if I, a person takes interest, he doesn't believe in יציאת מצרים? Now, the mefarshim say like this, that if a person takes interest by saying that the money that I'm lending you is not really mine, it belongs to a goy. That's how people would do, if people wanted to trick somebody, they'd say, \"Well, someone asked me for a loan, I would say, 'I don't have money, I actually happen to have money that belongs to a goy. If you want, I'll lend it to you, but since it's a goy, you have to give interest.'\" If a person does that, obviously he shows that he doesn't believe that Hashem knows the difference, but Hashem knows whether it's true or not. Because if he believed Hashem knows that it's not true, then he wouldn't say it. And this guy doesn't believe in יציאת מצרים. By יציאת מצרים, how did it happen? Hashem killed the firstborns, the goyim, and the and the other ones he left live. So, Hashem knew exact difference, who's a firstborn, who's not a firstborn. If you take interest obviously in such a way, obviously you don't believe that Hashem knows the difference between one thing and another. But this peshat is hard to understand, because this would only explain if a person takes interest by saying that it belongs to a goy. But what if a person takes interest, just takes, doesn't care, takes interest? Why is that got to do with יציאת מצרים? Also, why is it that when a person takes interest, as if he throws off the yoke of שמים? Why is, some say because if you take interest, you feel that Hashem can't support you. Hashem said, \"Don't take interest,\" and you're taking interest because you feel that's the way you're going to make money. Obviously, you don't believe that Hashem can support you. That's why, take interest, it shows that you throw off the yoke of Hashem. But that doesn't make sense either. It's not, it makes sense, it's hard to understand, because it has nothing to do with malchut shamayim, it has to do with bitachon. It shows that you don't have bitachon, but it has nothing to do with throwing off the yoke of Hashem. Besides, the same thing should be if a person doesn't want to borrow, lend money. When you come over to a person and say, \"Lend me money, without taking interest.\" He says, \"Oh no, I can't lend you the money.\" Why doesn't he want to lend? Because he's afraid that he'll lend him the money, he won't make, he won't have other money to make business. So, he also doesn't have the same bitachon. Why is it that if you take interest, it's not so clear? על פי חסידות, it's understood like this. And let me just be short and try in a few minutes to explain what the connection between taking interest and denying in יציאת מצרים, and throwing off the yoke of שמים, and not getting up to תחיית המתים. So, it says like this, just mamash in short, we know that the mitzvot that we do, Hashem does also. But there are two ways. Some places it says that first Hashem does it, and he tells us to do it. The expression is: מה שהוא עושה, מצוה לישראל לעשות. What he does, he tells us to do. So, he does the mitzvot, tells us to do it. Then it's the opposite, that when we do mitzvot, this causes him to do it. It says, like Torah it says, if a person, כל הקורא ושונה בתורה, someone learns תורה, הקדוש ברוך הוא קורא ושונה כנגדו. You make Hashem learn. If you do a mitzvah, you make Hashem do mitzvot. In other words, whatever we do affects above. Whatever we do, things happen above. Now, one thing is clear, that what we do really doesn't make a difference above. What does Hashem care? How does our action change things above? It's like saying even more than a cockroach, what a cockroach does will change us. What are we? What kind of ערך, what kind of comparison do we have, so low creatures, that Hashem up there should be affected by what we do? The answer is, in truth, he wouldn't be affected. He just made this. It's not because we essentially affect him. Hashem decided that what we do should affect him. The question is why? Why did Hashem want that what we do should affect him? Milah, we say that first he does, and after he tells us to do, that we understand, because by him doing it gives us the koach that we should be able to do the mitzvot also. Because mitzvot are spiritual things, he does the mitzvot and makes us do it. But why did Hashem make that what we do should affect him? And the answer is, let's understand why bichlal does Hashem want us to do anything? Why did Hashem give us avodah, service, we serve Him? What does He care whether we work or not? Hashem wants to give us whatever He wants to give us, let Him give it to us. Why does He make us work for things? And the answer, it says in the Zohar, very simple, that if a person would get things without work, it's called נהמא דכיסופא, embarrassed bread. Who wants to get handouts? אדם רוצה בקב שלו יותר מתשעה קבים של חבירו, a person would rather have a little bit that he works for and deserved, than get a lot that's given for free. So Hashem wants to give us the best, but He says, \"If you're going to get things from Me without working, then you'll feel that you don't deserve it, so it's nothing.\" So that's why Hashem made that we should have to work. Good, but why did He make that when we work, it actually has an effect in shamayim? For the same reason. Imagine if a person would work knowing that what he does and he works and he'll get paid for it, but it doesn't accomplish anything. We're back to the same place, we're back to the embarrassed bread. Just like when a person gets something for not working, he's embarrassed, if a person works, but he knows it doesn't do anything, then it's the same thing, he's embarrassed. Or even more, if a person works and it doesn't accomplish anything, he won't even work. The Baal Shem Tov gave a mashal, I think it's from Baal Shem Tov, or maybe it's the Frierdiker Rebbe, gave a mashal of this פריץ, this landowner, who saw this guy, this goy, working in the field with a sickle cutting the wheat in the heat. Came over to him, he said, \"You know, how much do you get paid?\" He said, \"Well, I get five kopecks for the day.\" He said, \"You know what? Come into my house, it's cool, take the same sickle, just stand there and do it for the same amount of hours. Just stand and do like this, the same thing you do in the wheat, and I'll pay you the same five kopecks.\" \"Sure! Why stand out in the heat, and I'll do this and I'll get the same money?\" So he said, \"Sure.\" He came one day, he stood there, he did exact same thing. The פריץ came to him later, paid him, and the guy says, \"I'm not doing it again.\" He says, \"Why not?\" So the way the story goes, the Russian word he said, rabota ne vidna, \"My work is not seen. I work and work, I didn't see anything, there's no accomplishment. Stand in the field, I work the whole day like this, I see the wheat cut. Like this, what's...\" So if a Yid would work and it wouldn't accomplish anything, he wouldn't work. That's why Hashem made it that when we work, it shall accomplish. That's the whole idea of work. Now, if a person takes interest, that means that he makes money for something that he did before, but nothing for now. Interest means I lent a person money, I had money, I gave him the money, now the money is not mine anymore, and the money is his for a year. At the end of the year, he gives me a hundred dollars interest. So I'm making money on something that's not mine. If I'm investing, I'm a partner, so I'm part of the deal. So the whole time the money is being made, I'm part of it. But if I'm not a partner, then I'm just getting money because beforehand the money used to be mine. Whatever we do, midah k'neged midah happens by Hashem also. If I make money because of something that was there before, Hashem says, \"I'll do the same thing to you. I'll be with you before you start doing the mitzvot.\" We said there are two things: before we do a mitzvah, Hashem does it; then after we do, then we make Hashem do also. If we take interest, then the peshat is that we're making by Hashem the same thing, that Hashem is before we do anything, He's part with us, but while we're doing, He's not our partner. Just like I am making money in a way that I'm not a partner, I'm making money based on what happened before. So Hashem says, \"I'll do the same thing to you. I'll be with you before, but during the time when you do your service, which could accomplish למעלה, every time you do a mitzvah it should have an effect למעלה, it won't have an effect. Just like you're doing, you're taking ribit when nothing is happening now and just from before.\" And that's called taking off the עול מלכות שמים. That means if you do something, if you do a mitzvah or whatever you do, and Hashem is not your partner, then you don't have the עול of Hashem with you. Taking ribit means you're not a partner and you want to get benefit for something from before, so all you're dealing with is from before. Hashem says, \"I'll do the same. I'll be before with you, I'll give you the koach, and then later I won't be with you. So you don't have Hashem as a partner, so you don't have מלכות שמים.\" And that's why it says you don't believe in Yetziat Mitzrayim. Yetziat Mitzrayim means going out of Mitzrayim. Mitzrayim means limitations. You go out of your limitations. If Hashem is not a partner in what you do, then you are limited. A person does things on his own, then everything is limited. Only if Hashem is your partner, then you're unlimited. If you take interest, that means you're not a partner in the investment, so Hashem is not your partner either, so then you are still in Mitzrayim. And that's why you don't get תחיית המתים. תחיית המתים means that things are eternal. Why will there be a resurrection? of the dead, because things are forever. So the Yid, even though he died, will be forever. When is there תחיית המתים? If what you do is connected to Hashem, and Hashem is forever, so you are forever, and therefore you get up תחיית המתים. But if you take interest, that means you say to Hashem, \"I don't have, I don't need You as a partner. It's good that You were before, You made me or things like that from before, but now You don't have to be partners with me. I make money without being a partner, so You don't have to be a partner either.\" If Hashem is not our partner in what we do, so there is no eternity in what we do, so then there is no תחיית המתים either. The basic is this of what it means: if a person takes interest, he shows to Hashem that, \"I don't need You.\" And if You don't need You, then all the terrible things that the Gemara says happens, which is all connected with the word נשך. In Hebrew, ribit is interest, but the word נשך also means interest. נשך means biting. It says in Kabbalah that when you take interest, you're biting away from the kedushah. You're biting away, taking a bite out of the kedushah, and automatically the klipah, the evil forces come in. When they come in, then Hashem isn't there, and if Hashem isn't there, you don't have Hashem as a partner, then you're stuck. And this is why interest is such a terrible thing. But the פשטות and the simple things is that by taking not taking interest, an Yid shows to Hashem that we are able to be a nation that is beyond the nature of the world, a nation that's not limited to the normality of the world, and we could do things, even though normally it won't bring me any profit, we trust Hashem that we'll get a profit anyway, and the main thing is we'll get the ruchniyusdike profit with all the rewards, and the gashmiyusdike reward, the ruchniyusdike reward, and the reward of coming Mashiach very soon.