Bava Metzia 7b โ Iyun
Two People Holding One Loan Document: Who Wins?
Part of Bava Metzia (Iyun) · 8:35
A Bava Basra sugya on a dispute between two parties each holding part of a shtar, the significance of the date written on it, and Rashi's question about which half carries more value.
Audio Transcript
Gemara here in Bava Metzia ืืฃ ื' ืขืืื ื' and the Gemara is ืืืืฉื to the Gemara on ืืฃ ื' ืขืืื ื'. The Gemara on ืืฃ ื' ืขืืื ื' says: ืชื ื ืจืื ื ืฉื ืื ืืืืงืื ืืฉืืจ If two people come to ืืืช ืืื holding a ืฉืืจ and these two people happen to be the ืืืืื and the ืืื, ืืืืื ืืืืจ ืฉืื ืืื ืื ืคื ืืื ื ืืืฆืืชืื The ืืืืื says the ืฉืืจ is mine. That means he never paid yet and I lost this and I found it and this guy is tries to get it away from me. The ืืื ืืืืจ ืฉืื ืฉืื ืืื ืืคืจืขืชืื says, \"I paid and basically the simple pshat the Rashi says and I lost the ืฉืืจ, so I don't owe you any money.\" So, the
Gemara brings a machloket between the ืจืื ื and Rabbi Shimon ben Gamliel, but the bottom line is what the Gemara explains that everyone agrees that if the ืฉืืจ is a ืฉืืจ ืืงืืื we say yechaloku. That means we don't know if he did pay or he didn't pay and since they're both holding on to the ืฉืืจ, this falls under the category of ืฉื ืื ืืืืืื ืืืืืช. ืื ืืืืจ ืื ื ืืฆืืชืื ืืื ืืืืจ ืื ื ืืฆืืชืื and the din over there is yechaloku, yishava veyechaloku. So, the same thing here also. The ืืืืื if the ืืืืื and the ืืื are holding on to the ืฉืืจ, you say yechaloku. So if the loan is a hundred dollars, you divide it. Okay, right. The Gemara explains later you don't divide how much it says in the ืฉืืจ, how much the loan is, but how much the value of the ืฉืืจ is, which means a loan let's give an example, a ืฉืืจ where it says you owe a hundred dollars, probably if you could sell that ืฉืืจ on the market, it'll be worth ninety. Someone will rate it be ninety. Let's give an example. So, you pay half of that. But whatever it is, the din is yechaloku. Comes the Gemara here in ืืฃ ื' ืขืืื ื' and ืืืจ ืจื ืืืขืืจ: ืืืืืงืช ืืฉืฉื ืืื ืืืืงืื ืืืืคืก ืืืฉื ืืื ืืชืืจืฃ. This din of ืืืืืงื that we say if they're both holding the ืฉืืจ is if they're both holding it equally. Both are holding the same part of the ืฉืืจ, the same ืืฉืื part of the ืฉืืจ. A
ืฉืืจ, as we know, has two parts to it: a ืืืคืก and a ืชืืจืฃ. ืชืืจืฃ is the specifics, like how much money and what who's the person that borrowed, who's the person that lent, and the ืืืคืก is the standard ืืฉืื that every ืฉืืจ has, the form. ืขื ืืืื ืืื when you buy get a form in Hebrew, what's called a form to fill out? You have a ืืืคืก. A ืืืคืก is a form and then you have a ืชืืจืฃ. But it seems from the Gemara the way it used to be those days that it was divided into half. When you had the ืฉืืจ, the top was the ืชืืจืฃ said all the details and the second half was the ืืืคืก, which is the regular generic words that a estate has. So if they're both holding the same, if they're both are holding on to the ืชืืจืฃ or both holding on to the ืืืคืก, then they're both equal. If they're both equals, ืืืืืงื. They divide equally. ืืื ืืื ืืืืง ืืืืคืก ืืืื ืืืืง ืืชืืจืฃ But if one is holding the ืืืคืก and one the ืชืืจืฃ, that means they're holding on both sides, one is holding the ืชืืจืฃ which is the details and one is holding just the regular form, then ืื ื ืืื ืืืคืก ืืื ื ืืื ืชืืจืฃ. Each one takes what he's holding, which is basically the din by the ืืืืช also. What's the din by the ืืืืช? So, we learned that in the Gemara earlier. The din by ืืืืช is that even though the Mishnah says that if they're both holding the ืืืืช, ืืืืืงื. So, what did the Gemara say? Let's go back to the Gemara before. The Gemara says ืฉื ืื ืืืืงืื ืืืืืช, ืื ื ืืื ืขื ืืงืื ืฉืืื ืืืขืช ืืื ื ืืื ืขื ืืงืื ืฉืืื ืืืขืช ืืืฉืืจ ืืืืงืื ืืฉืื. Said if they're holding differently, so whatever each one is holding, that's what he gets. Whatever they're not holding either one is holding, then you divide. The same thing here also by the ืฉืืจ, that if one is holding different than the other, each one gets what he's holding. And the Gemara explains, what does that mean? And the Gemara says the further on, that the only difference between the ืชืืจืฃ and the ืืืคืก, that we said the
one that's holding the ืชืืจืฃ gets the ืชืืจืฃ and the one that's holding the ืืืคืก gets the ืืืคืก, the only difference is the ืืื. In the ืชืืจืฃ you have the date. So the one that's holding the ืชืืจืฃ is holding the date. The one that's holding the ืชืืคืก doesn't have the date. And that's the only difference. And we have to evaluate how much is the ืืื worth. How do you evaluate how much holding the date is worth? Very simple. You go to the market, you find out. A ืฉืืจ like this, and you want to sell it, let's say a ืฉืืจ of a hundred dollars, and you want to sell it. How much is the ืฉืืจ going to be sold in the market if it has a date, and how much it will be sold for if it doesn't have a date? So let's use an example. Probably if it has a date, it will, you'll pay a hundred dollars for it. If it doesn't have a date, you'll only pay 90, because without a date you can't collect from the ืืฉืืขืืืื. So you'll only 90. So the date is worth 10 dollars. That's what it means. So the one that's holding the ืชืืจืฃ gets the extra money that the date is worth, the one that's holding the ืชืืคืก doesn't get it. So the first thing you do, the guy who's holding the ืชืืจืฃ you give him on his credit 10 dollars, and the rest you divide equally. That's what the Gemara says. Comes Rashi, and
Rashi asks the shaila: Why do we say that the ืืขืื of the ืชืืจืฃ is only the date? It's not only the date. It has all the information. The ืชืืจืฃ has the date, has the name of the ืืืื, the name of the ืืื, the amount of money. So he has a lot more, not just he has a date and his share that he's holding is just the date. So what does Rashi answer? No problem. The other things don't count, because the ืชืืคืก also has it, because the din is that you repeat whatever you write in the beginning in the ืชืืจืฃ, you repeat later in the ืชืืคืก. So the names and the amount of money is repeated. So automatically, they're both holding it. So the one that's holding the ืชืืจืฃ has the name and has this, the amount, and the one that's holding the ืชืืคืก also has it. The only thing the one that has the ืชืืจืฃ has more than the other guy is the ืืื, because that you don't repeat. But then Rashi asks another shaila: What about the ืขืืื? Should be the opposite. The one that has the ืชืืคืก, which is the second half, that's where you have the signatures. So the one that's holding the ืชืืคืก has the signatures, and the one that's holding the ืชืืจืฃ doesn't. So lichora the one that has the ืชืืคืก should be even more, should have more. So Rashi says, that's not a problem, cause our Gemara goes according to Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, and what did the Gemara say before Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel holds? ืืืื ืืฉืืจ ืฉืืชืื ืืื ืฆืจืื ืืงืืืื. If a person says, is ืืืื, the ืืื is ืืืื, the ืฉืืจ yes is a real good ืฉืืจ, he says I paid for it, but the ืฉืืจ was a good ืฉืืจ, the ืฉืืจ is valid even if you don't have ืงืืื. Normally a ืฉืืจ has no validity if you're not ืืงืืื it, if it doesn't have the certification of ืืืช ืืื. But Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says if the ืืื is ืืืื, it doesn't need. Now in this
case, the ืืื is ืืืื. What does the ืืื ืืขื ื when he found the ืฉืืจ? The ืืื ืืขื ื is, I paid for it, but the ืฉืืจ is good. So mimela Rashi says that according to Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, this Gemara goes according to Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, we don't care that the guy who is holding the ืชืืจืฃ doesn't have the signatures. You don't need the signatures, because the ืืื is ืืืื. Mimela, comes out like this: The guy who is holding the ืชืืคืก has no ืืขืื of the ืขืืืช, ืืื the other guy doesn't have, but we don't care, if he doesn't have the ืขืืืช, it's still good. The one that's holding the ืชืืจืฃ doesn't have a ืืขืื over the ืชืืคืก by the names and the amount of money, so again they're both equal, because it's written again, Rashi says.