Bava Metzia 10a โ Iyun
Does Standing Within Four Cubits of an Object Make It Yours?
Part of Bava Metzia (Iyun) · 54:09
A detailed sugya on acquiring an ownerless item simply by being within four amos of it, how this differs from acquisition via one's courtyard (chatzer), and its application to a woman's get.
Audio Transcript
Gemara here in Bava Metzia ืืฃ ืืดื ืขืืื ืืณ, the Gemara says ืืืจ ืจืืฉ ืืงืืฉ ืืฉืื ืืื ืืื ืืจืืื, Rish Lakish said in the name of Abba Kohen Bardela a ืืื, ืืจืืข ืืืืช ืฉื ืืื ืงืื ืืช ืื ืืื ืืงืื, that the four amot, the four cubits around a person will acquire, will be koneh for him, wherever it is, any object that comes in. It means in order for a person to acquire an object, let's say you find an object, a lost and you're allowed to keep it in a case where you're allowed to keep it, but it only becomes yours if you make a kinyan, whether you pick it up, make a kinyan. So the din that the chachamim made that if it becomes into four amot, your four amot automatically you are koneh it, and it becomes yours. He says They're all getting to ืจืฉืืช ืจืืื. Huh? ืจืืื? Well, All This is a sugya of ืืณ ืืืืช. And he says ืืื ืืขืื ืชืงืื ื ืจืื ื? Why did the rabbanan do it? ืืื ืืชื ืืื ืฆืืื, so people shouldn't argue. Then it'll be easier to to know which thing is mine, which thing is yours. Like this, something comes and this guy, \"I I got it first. I got it first.\" But if it comes into your ืืณ ืืืืช, then you're koneh it. And on this din Huh? Without picking it up? Without picking it up. That's What If you pick up, you're koneh it with a kinyan of picking up. Without picking it up, just coming into your ืืณ ืืืืช, you're koneh it. Then the Gemara brings two kashyot.
One kashya from a Mishnah in Masechet Peah, and one kashya from the Mishnah here in Bava Metzia. The kashya from Masechet Peah is like this: ื ืื ืืงืฆืช ืคืื, it says if you know what ืคืื, ืคืื is when you cut the field, you have to leave over a little bit at the edge for the poor people. What happened if a poor guy comes, took some ืคืื, then he saw some more, and he wanted to get the others also. What did he do? He took some ืคืื ืืืจืง ืขื ืืฉืืจ, all he did was he threw it on the rest. ืืื ืื ืื ืืืื, gets nothing. Throwing doesn't make it yours. ื ืคื ืขืืื, what happens if he saw some ืคืื and he threw himself, he jumped on it, or ืคืจืก ืืืืชื ืขืืื, took off his coat and he put it on it, ืืขืืืจืื ืืืื ื, we take him away. It doesn't work. So the Gemara's question is ืื ืืืจืช ืืจืืข ืืืืช ืฉื ืืื ืงืื ืืช ืื ืืื ืืงืื, if there's a din that anything that's in your four amot, in your around you automatically you're koneh, so if he fell on it, he was obviously within the four amot. So then why is he not koneh? Why do we say it's nothing? So ื ืงื ื ืืื ืืจืืข ืืืืช ืืืืื, why don't the ืืจืืข ืืืืช be koneh for him? So first the Gemara wants to answer ืืื ืืืื ืขืกืงืื ื ืืื ืืืจ ืืงื ื. You know why? Because the case here is, when is he not koneh? Because he didn't say, he didn't say, \"I want to be koneh with the ืืณ ืืืืช.\" And since he didn't say, he's not koneh. So frekt the Gemara, it's not true, ืื ืชืืงืื ืจืื ื, if the ืจืื ื made a din of ืืณ ืืืืช, ืื ืื ืืืจ ืืื ืืื, and if he didn't say? It's a kinyan anyway! So you can't answer me the reason he wasn't koneh over there is because he didn't say. So the Gemara comes up with a new answer. The answer is ืืืืื ืื ืคื, since he fell on it, ืืื ืืขืชืื, the guy who fell on it showed his mind ืืื ืคืืื ื ืืื ืืื ืื ืงื ื, ืืืจืืข ืืืืช ืื ื ืืื ืืื ืื ืงื ื, that he wants to be koneh with falling, exactly, and not with the ืืณ ืืืืช. So if he didn't want to be koneh with the ืืณ ืืืืช, that's why he's not koneh. But otherwise, a normal case where something comes in your ืืณ ืืืืช, you're koneh it. It's still peah? Huh? It was still peah what he fell on? Yeah, First he took the first peah. The first he took, but the rest was also peah, right. The rest was also something that the poor people have a right to take.
Rav Pappa gives a different answer. Rav Pappa says ืื ืชืืงื ื ืจืื ื ืืจืืข ืืืืช ืืขืืื, ืืื ืืฉืื ืืืขื ืืืืช ืื ืชืืงื ื, that they only made that takanah in other places, in in the field of somebody else the chachamim didn't make my ืืจืืข ืืืืช in your field. And he says why, ืืืฃ ืขื ืื ืืืื ืืื ืจืืื ื ืืืืื, the Torah made him have a right to come in, ืื ืืื ืืื ืจืืื ื ืืืืืื ืื ืืืืื ืงื ืคืื, the Torah allowed the poor people to come into the field to collect peah. ืืื ืืืืื ืืืฆืืจื, it should become like his yard, like his domain and he should be koneh it? No, ืื ืืื ืืื ืจืืื ื, the Torah didn't. That's the discussion the Gemara as a a kashya and an answer and the whole discussion on the Mishnah Peah. Then the Gemara continues another kashya, very similar in a Mishnah here. The Mishnah says here, ืจืื ืืช ืืืฆืืื ืื ืคื ืขืืื, someone's walking or whatever and he sees a lost object and he fell on it, he jumped on it, ืืื ืืืจ ืืืืืืง ืื, someone else comes and takes it out, takes it, ืื ืฉืืืืืง ืื ืืื ืื, the second guy gets it because the first guy was not koneh it, because falling you're not koneh it. Fregt the Gemara the same she'eilah, if Reish Lakish said that something that comes into your ืืณ ืืืืช you're koneh, so this guy, why isn't he koneh with his ืืณ ืืืืช? Before he fell on it he was in the ืืณ ืืืืช. Yeah, but I don't know how far it was, but by the time he got to fall, he became close, so he's definitely in the ืืณ ืืืืช, should be koneh. And the Gemara goes through the same motion. First the Gemara wants to answer because he maybe the case is he didn't say. Then the Gemara says he didn't say, who cares if he didn't say? Doesn't matter if he didn't say, cuz if the Rabbanan made it, it doesn't matter. So therefore, the Gemara answers the same terutz, because he fell on it, it showed he showed that he wants to be koneh with falling, not with the ืืณ ืืืืช, and falling didn't do it, but ืืณ ืืืืช he's also not koneh, that's why he's not koneh.
Rav Sheshet gives a different answer over here, because he says in ืจืฉืืช ืืจืืื the chachamim didn't make it. Didn't make what? The din of ืืณ ืืืืช. It's only in public place, but like in ืฆืืื ืจืฉืืช ืืจืืื, ืกืืืื, inside things, but in the case of ืจืฉืืช ืืจืืื, why? And he says why, ืื ืชืงืื ื ืจืื ื ืืื ืืืงื ืจืืื, where there is not a crowd, ืืจืฉืืช ืืจืืื ืืงื ืืืงื ืจืืื, where you have a crowd and so many people, each daled amot is within mixed with the other ืืณ ืืืืช, ืื ืชืงืื ื ืจืื ื, ืจืื ื didn't make it. This is the Gemara. Now, in this Gemara, in this din of daled amot, we find many machlokot, many arguments in the rishonim, acharonim, different dinim. So we're going to go through a few, and try to see how to explain the basis of this machloket. Let's go one by one. The ืืืื ืืคื? In each case, whatever is paskeded. 11. One she'eilah here is and which they argue is, this din of daled amot that we're saying the Chachamim made, which is if some metziah, something that's hefker falls into your daled amot, you're koneh, does that also apply to ืืงื ืืืืืจ, to selling? If I sell you something, and in order for it to become yours, you have to make a kinyan. So kinyan means picking up or whatever. What happens if I put it in your daled amot? Does daled amot work or is it worked only by a metziah? What happens by matanah? If I want to give you a present, so if I put it in your daled amot, does it become yours, are you koneh it? A get, a get is? We're not talking about transfer of money. We're not talking about transfer of money at all here. No, money is not koneh anyway. Money is not koneh. A get is, I agree with you. A get works with daled amot. A get for sure it works. But the she'eilah is does it work by ืืงื ืืืืืจ? Money is not koneh. We learned that a whole bunch in in this, by metziah, yeah, and later, money is not koneh, you have to make a kinyan. Meshichah, pull it, pick it up, whatever kinyan you make. So is this, if you put puts in the daled amot, are you koneh or not? Now, from Tosafos is mashma that it doesn't work by ืืงื ืืืืืจ. How? Because Tosafos asks the ืงืฉืื, and this din of ืืณ ืืืืช, which we said is koneh, we find a different Gemara he brings that if someone steals something, he's not koneh with the ืืณ ืืืืช, because to be chayav for ืื ืืื, to be obligated to pay, is only if you took it. Taking means you made a kinyan. So it says if you stole it, but you never picked it up, even though it came into your ืืณ ืืืืช, he didn't he's not chayav yet. Why not? That's Tosafos ืงืฉืื. If ืืณ ืืืืช makes a kinyan, so why is he not koneh? And Tosafos answered, ืืฉ ืืืืจ, ืืืื ืื ืื ืชืงืื ื ืจืื ื ืืืงื ื. By ืื ืืื, by stealing, the ืจืื ื didn't make. How does How did he steal it and not be Steal it and not be koneh? You're schlepping it on the ground. Then it's not It's not koneh. So you're not koneh, but it came into your ืืณ ืืืืช. In your ืืณ ืืืืช, but you're not. That's why he's saying not koneh. And then later when you pick it up, he's saying then you're koneh it, then you're chayav. It's noge'a You don't I'm not going to go into the sugya there. It's noge'a when the ืื ืืื took place, is it koneh? But anyway, that's not noge'a to the ืืืฉื of how it is. But
Tosafos says by ืื ืืื there was no tikun of ืืณ ืืืืช, ืืื ืืืฆืืื. Yes! Only by ืืฆืืื. Why? ืืื ืืืชื ืืื ืฆืืื. By ืืฆืืื, you could come to argue. It's an ืืคืงืจ'ืืืงืข thing. I say I got it, you say you got it. So the ืืืืื wanted to make it easier, they said ืืณ ืืืืช is ืงืื ื. So they only made it by ืืฆืืื and by ืื. ืืฉืื ืขืืืื ื. By ืื, they made it easier. If you give a ืื to the ืืฉื, to the woman in her ืืณ ืืืืช, she gets divorced. She's ืงืื ื it, she gets divorced. Why? They wanted to make it easier for a woman to be able to get a ืื, because otherwise, you know, sometimes she might remain an agunah. What comes out from Tosafot? ืืฆืืื and ืื. These comes out that he gives ืืชื ื. That's what I'm saying. So comes out from Tosafot, that's what we're talking about. So I want to bring a re'ayah from Tosafot, and the mefarshim bring this re'ayah. A re'ayah that Tosafot holds that by a ืืชื ื and ืืงื ืืืืืจ, by selling or by a present, it doesn't work, because Tosafot said it only works by ืืฆืืื. Know why? So people shouldn't argue, because otherwise they'll argue. By ืืชื ื, nobody's going to argue. If I put a ืืชื ื to you, who someone's going to say, no, it's mine? I'm giving it to you, or if I'm selling something to you. So according to Tosafot, it comes out that by ืืงื ืืืืืจ, by selling or by a present, there is no ืืื of ืืณ ืืืืช. It's mashma from Rashi like that, because in Rashi, when it speaks about it says ืืณ ืืืืช ืงืื ื, so Rashi uses this words: ืื ืืฉ ืกืืืืืชืื ืืืจ ืืคืงืจ. If something of ืืคืงืจ is found around you, ืืื ืืืจ ืจืฉืื ืืชืืคืกื, no one else could take it, because you ืงืื ื with ืืณ ืืืืช. Why does Rashi mention by ืืคืงืจ? And if it's, what if it's by, what if it's a ืืชื ื? But why is it by ืคืื it should also be? Huh? ืคืื's a field. It belongs to everybody. Yeah. All at once. A bunch of poor people everywhere. So what should be? And they come to argue about it. So it should fall in there. Yeah, but the reason is because it's in the ืจืฉืืช of what the Gemara answers. That was the Gemara's kashya, understand? That was the Gemara's kashya: how come it doesn't apply? And that's what the Gemara gave the answer, that he showed that he doesn't want, because he fell on it, or the second terutz, in the ืจืฉืืช of somebody's house, somebody's yard, it doesn't work. But ืืขืฆื, it should apply, that's the Gemara's kashya, why doesn't it apply? It should apply, because it's hefker. But from Tosafos and from Rashi comes out that it doesn't work by other things besides a metziah or by get. because there it's something that each one could ืืขื ื it's for me. But by by sell, by ืืงื ืืืืืจ, by matanah, you see that the Shitah Mekubetzet gives a different terutz on Tosafos' kushya: why not by ืื ืืื? Because when it comes to an aveirah, the chachamim didn't say it. So it's not because of what Tosafos says, by an aveirah. So what about selling or a present? It's not an aveirah, maybe they did say. Tosafos didn't give that answer. Tosafos says they only said it in a place where you might come to argue. And by ืื ืืื, you're not going to argue. So if that's the reason that only with a place where you might come to argue, it's only by a metziah. And that's similar to Rashi. The
Rambam says clearly, when he talks about the din of ืืณ ืืืืช, the Rambam says, and therefore, after the chachamim made a din of ืืณ ืืืืช, it's you have a matanah put into your ืืณ ืืืืช, you are koneh it. So the Rambam holds clearly that it's not only there, but ืืงื ืืืืืจ also. That's how the Nimukei Yosef here holds, that's how the Ramban holds, that's how the Rashba holds, that's how the Ritva holds. That there is ืืณ ืืืืช by ืืงื ืืืืืจ, that's what they hold. Actually, the Ritva even wants to bring, he says that there is a, this ืืื, whether it applies to ืืงื ืืืืืจ and matana also, or not, is a machloket in Yerushalmi between Rabbi Yochanan and Reish Lakish. That's how he teytsh zu. Reish Lakish holds it does apply, Rabbi Yochanan holds it's not. And he tayn't, since the Gemara here brings Reish Lakish, that means that our Gemara, Bavli paskent like Reish Lakish, that what? That it does work by ืืงื ืืืืืจ. So the bottom line is that we have a big machloket here whether this whole ืืื of ืืณ ืืืืช was also made by a sale or by a present, or only by a metziah. Keep that in mind. So let's try to understand what is the reason behind the machloket. Then there's another machloket between the Rabbeinu Yonatan and the Ramach. The Shitah brings.
Rabbeinu Yonatan says that in order to be koneh with ืืณ ืืืืช, you have to say, \"My ืืณ ืืืืช are koneh for me.\" And he gives a logical sevara. You have to say! And he gives a logical sevara. He says, when you have a ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ, ืืฆืจ means if something comes into my domain, in my yard, in my house, I'm koneh it. So the ืืื is like this, the Gemara on ืืฃ ืืดื here says, if it's a ืืฆืจ ืืืฉืชืืจืช, if it's a yard, it has walls, whatever, it's guarded, something comes in, and it's stuck there, it's guarded there, then automatically I'm koneh it. If it's my ืืฆืจ, that's one of the kinyanim. One of the kinyanim where a person is koneh through ืืฆืจ. Right. If it's a ืืฆืจ ืฉืืื ื ืืฉืชืืจืช, if it has no walls, it's not ืืฉืชืืจ, not guarded, so it's only koneh if you're standing there, you have to be ืขืืื ืืฆืื, and if you say \"ืืืชื ืื ืฉืื\", you have to say \"let my field be ืืืื for me, koneh for me.\" So the Rabbeinu Yonatan says, if by a ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ, which is a ืงื ืื ืืืืจืืืชื, it's not the ืืืืื made a ืชืงื ื, it's a kinyan from the Torah. If it's a ืืฆืจ ืฉืืื ื ืืฉืชืืจืช, it's not you have, in order for you to be koneh, you have to say \"let my ืืฆืจ be koneh\", by ืืณ ืืืืช, which is only a ืงื ืื ืืจืื ื, you certainly have to say, and it's definitely ืืื ื ืืฉืชืืจืช. It's only your ืืณ ืืืืช, it's not guarded. So certainly you have to say, I want to be koneh with the ืืณ ืืืืช. Huh? Yeah. If yeah, in a case where it's ืืื ื ืืฉืชืืจืช, yeah. No, if it's if it's ืืฉืชืืจืช, she doesn't, but if ืืื ื ืืฉืชืืจืช, yeah. No, she has to say. If it's ืืื ื ืืฉืชืืจืช, she has to say. So he brings a re'aya. Ay, the Gemara says opposite! How could the Rabbeinu Yonatan learn like that? When the Gemara tried to answer why by ืคืื you're not koneh with the ืืณ ืืืืช, because he didn't say, and the Gemara says, \"What are you talking about? You don't have to say!\" Right? That's what the Gemara says! So how did Rabbeinu Yonatan say you do have to say? It's against the Gemara! So he answers, he says you don't understand pshat in the Gemara. Farkert, he says, \"I have a re'aya from this Gemara to me!\" The first answer of the Gemara was what? Why aren't you koneh? Because you didn't Because you didn't say! That was the first approach. A siman that the Gemara learns that you have to say. When the Gemara said, \"But you don't have to say,\" the Gemara meant, in this case, you don't have to say. Since he fell on it, actions speak louder than words. That was as good as saying, and even better! That's what the Gemara says! And the Gemara slogs off and says, \"No, falling is worse.\" But at that point, it was thought it was to say. Anyway, but the bottom line is Rabbeinu Yonatan learns that you have to say ืืืชื ืื, that the ืืณ ืืืืช should be koneh it. And the Ramach... Nein, by ืืณ ืืืืช, you have to say, yeah, you have to say \"I'm koneh with the ืืณ ืืืืช.\" Huh? There's not, who wants to hear? Who's here? But we're talking about can a ganav be a liar? So whether he could lie. A frumer id comes and says, \"This is what happened, am I koneh or not?\" And the Ramach says no, you don't have to. You don't have to say. By ืืณ ืืืืช, you don't have to say. another machloket rishonim. Then we have a third machloket rishonim. Wait, did he only say by by ืืงื ืืืืืจ? No, no, ืืืื. By ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช, it's koneh for you, whatever it's koneh, it's nothing to do with your saying. You don't have to say in order for it to be koneh. Automatic. Automatic. If you can get your ื' ืืืืช, you can. Then there's a third machloket. What did the Gemara say here? Why takeh by ืคืื and by the ืืฆืืื of our Gemara you're not koneh with the ื' ืืืืช? So the Gemara says ืืืื ืื ืคื, since he fell on it, ืืื ืืขืชืื, he showed that ืื ืคืืื ื ืืื ืืื ืื ืืงื ื, he wants to be koneh with ื ืคืืื, ืืืจืืข ืืืืช ืื ื ืืื ืืื, he doesn't want to be koneh with ืืจืืข ืืืืช. That's what the Gemara says. Comes the Nimukei Yosef, and the
Nimukei Yosef hacks around a word here. And he says, you know why since he didn't have in mind to be ืงืื ื with the ื' ืืืืช he's not ืงืื ื? Because ื' ืืืืช is a ืชืงื ืช ืืืืื. Because it's ืชืงื ืช ืืืืื, the chachamim set so. A person has a right, whenever the chachamim made a takanah, so many takanot you find chachamim for the benefit of the people, so if the chachamim made a takanah for my benefit, I have a right to say ืื ืืคืฉื ืืชืงื ืช ืืืืื. I don't want, and the Gemara says you're allowed to. So this also, the chachamim made for the benefit of the people to make it easier, so they made a ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช. By him falling, he's showing that I don't want that that that. Mimela he's not ืงืื ื. ืืืื ืื ืืคืจืฉืื, among the mefarshim, the Rebbe looks at this. Huh? Mimela he's not ืงืื ื. That's what it That's why by the by the case of the ืคืื when he fell on it and the ืืฆืืื, because he fell, he showed he's ืงืื ื He's thinking to be ืงืื ื with something else. But since the the the Nimukei Yosef says that, you know why he's not ืงืื ื, based on the fact that he didn't want to be ืงืื ื this way, if because it's a ืืจืื ื, is ืืฉืืข, what would be if it would be a ืงื ืื ืืืืจืืืชื? It wouldn't help. He'd be ืงืื ื whether you like it or not. And who are the mefarshim? There are many mefarshim. But the Rebbe in Likkutei Sichos has a whole ืืจืืืืช on this Nimukei Yosef, and he learns like that, that the Nimukei Yosef is saying that by a ืงื ืื ืืืืจืืืชื, it's even if you had a mind to be koneh with a different kinyan, and you b'foal you made this kinyan, so l'chorah when you were trying to do a different kinyan, you showed that you want to be koneh with that kinyan, not this, you're still koneh by a de'oraita. Which would mean, if the same thing would be by ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ, the same thing like here, he fell on it, and it was could have been koneh with ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ, we will not say, since you fell on it, shows you don't want to be koneh and you're not koneh, by ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ you would be koneh. So there's a difference according to Nimukei Yosef if Because it's de'oraita. Because it's de'oraita. So there's a difference between the ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช and ืืฆืจ. While the Rashba says that this works in both cases. What works? This fact that you showed that you don't want to be koneh will be by ืืฆืจ also. That if by ืืฆืจ you did the same thing, you would not be koneh. Not like the Nimukei Yosef who makes a difference between ืืฆืจ and ื' ืืืืช. Like, how's it derabbanan, or is it de'oraita when you fall on it? No, falling is nothing. Falling is not derabbanan not de'oraita, but you're showing you wanted to be koneh one way, which it doesn't work, but you think it works. So obviously you don't want to be koneh the other way. But de'oraita works. The Ra'ah So, maybe he's making it stronger by falling on it? Well, that was the hava amina in the Gemara according to the Rabbeinu Yonatan. But the Gemara says not, the Gemara says if you fall, you show you don't want. So here, again, the Nimukei Yosef holds that
there's a difference between ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช that if you show that you don't want, you're not koneh, and ืืฆืจ, if you show you don't want, too bad, you're still koneh. The Rashba says in both cases, if you show you don't want, you're not they're both equal. The Raah says also they're both equal, but opposite. Lehalacha ulemaaseh he says even by ื' ืืืืช it won't work, and you will be koneh, because ืืฆืจ like the second terutz that doesn't apply, so this there is a whole ืืจืืืืช. So we have here three opinions. But basically the nekudah of the machloket is two opinions. One says there is a difference between ื' ืืืืช and ืืฆืจ. By ื' ืืืืช, if you say show that you don't want, you're not koneh, by ืืฆืจ you would. And according to the others, they're both the same. Whether they're both the same, they're both ืื, both not, but they're both the same. So what is the basis of the machloket? Then this a three machlokot in the Rishonim. ืืื ืืืก ื ืืฉื ื ืืืข ืืืื ืืื? ืื? ืื ืืฆืจ ืืืืื ืืื ืืืขืจ ืขืจ ืืืื ื ืื? ืขืจ ืขืจ ืืืื ืขืจ ืืืื ื ืื. ืขืจ ืขืจ ืขืจ ืืืื ืืขืช ืื ืขืจ ืืืื ืขืก ืืืืฃ ื ืฆืืืืืืข ืืืขื. ืืืก ืืื ืื ืืื ืฆืข ืฉืืื, ืืืื. ืืฆืจ you don't need you need, but if a guy, that's the whole ืฉืืื, if a guy shows that I'm trying to make a different ืงื ืื, ืขืจ ืืืื ื ืืฉื ืขืจ ืืืื ื ืื, ืขืจ ืืื ืืขืคืืื ืืืืื ืขืจ... ืืืขืจ ืืืื ืืื ืื ืืืจื ื ืืฉื ืืืื! ืื ืืืจื ืืื ืืื ื ืืฉื ืฆืืคืจืืื. ื ืืื, ืืืื ืืื ืื ืืืจื ื ืืฉื ืืืื! ืคืืจ ืืืืก? ืืืืื ืื ืืืจื ืื ืืืจื ืืื ืืฉืืข ืื ื' ืืืืช... ื ืืฆืจ ืืืืื ืืื ืืื ืงืื ื. ื ืืื, ื' ืืืืช ืืื ืืืื ืงืื ื! ื' ืืืืช ืืื ืงืื ื... ื' ืืืืช ืืื ืงืื ื ืชืงื ืช ืืืืื. ืืืื ืงืืื... ื ืืฆืจ ืืื ืงืื ื ืืืืื ืขืก ืืื ืืืื ืจืฉืืช. ืืืก ืืืืกื ืืืืก ืืื ืืื ืื ืืืืืง? What's the difference? Why is this different? No, what No, if if the idea is the Gemara accepted that if you fall on it, you show that you want this and not that, that's the nekudah. So lichora you can say the same thing by chatzer. ื ืืฆืจ ืืื ืืื ืืืืจืืืชื. So who cares? So the Nimukei Yosef learns why de'oraita is different. Who says it? But who says that de'oraita is different? If if if we assume, if the psychology is that by doing this you show you don't want, so you're showing by chatzer also you didn't want. The she'eilah is not that. The she'eilah is, does it help? We accept the fact that by falling you showed You don't want that kinyan. Does your not wanting work here? So the Nimukei Yosef says is a chiluk in de'oraita and derabbanan, and the Rashba and the Ran both say there's no chiluk in de'oraita and derabbanan. So there's a ืืฉ ืืืืจืื ืืื ืกืืฃ. Then there's a machloket acharonim, an interesting machloket, happens like this: interesting machloket, this is kind of an interesting sugya, this. The
Gemara it says, the Mishnah in Gittin, where it says like this: If someone threw a get to a wife, ืงืจืื ืื, if it came close to her, ืืืืจืฉืช. ืงืจืื ืื, if it came if it fell but it's still closer to him than to her, ืืื ื ืืืืจืฉืช, she's not divorced. ืืืฆื ืขื ืืืฆื, it means safek. If it's a ืืืืจืฉืช ืืืื ื ืืืืจืฉืช, it's a safek, that's what the Gemara says. Ah? Safek. If it's, we don't know it's exactly in the middle. So the Gemara asks: What do you mean it's exactly in the middle? So the Gemara wants to explain like this: When it says that if you threw close to her, she's divorced, it means within her ืืณ ืืืืช. If it's close to him, she's not divorced, if it's within his ืืณ ืืืืช. If it's half and half, then it's a safek. So the Gemara: What does that mean? What's a safek? How did it happen, why is it a safek? In whose ืืณ... Or it's his ืืณ ืืืืช, or her ืืณ ืืืืช. Ela mai, you're saying it's both ืืณ ืืืืช. That's what you could say! They're both standing close, and when it fell it fell it's within his, let's say this is ืืณ ืืืืช, this whole thing, so he is standing right next to her, he put it down, so it's inside his ืืณ ืืืืช and in her ืืณ ืืืืช. That's why we don't know who gets it. So the Gemara says: You can't say that! Let's see who came first! Whoever came first, that's his ืืณ ืืืืช! So if he came first, then she's not divorced. Hold back! So let's see who came first. Then the Gemara says, it tends of that could be they both came together. So the Gemara says: ืื ืืคืฉืจ ืืฆืืฆื, no such thing! Has to be one before the other, it can't be, ืื ืืคืฉืจ ืืฆืืฆื. Mimela the Gemara doesn't understand, what does that mean half and half, that it's both? So the Gemara changes, it's a different pshat. The Rabbi Akiva Eiger in a in a teshuva brings from here, says from here, the Ran learns out a din. Let me... The
Ran learns from this Gemara, when the Gemara asked if if they both are both in the same ืืณ ืืืืช, and the Gemara asks: Let's see who came first! So he's, a siman that when you have a person coming to the ืืณ ืืืืช, it becomes his, and if a second person comes into the same ืืณ ืืืืช, he doesn't get the ืืณ ืืืืช. The first one gets it, that's what you see from the Gemara, the first one gets it. That's what you see from the Gemara. So he says, I have a shaila, interesting shaila. What happens if Reuven took the place, he is standing there. Okay, so it's his ืืณ ืืืืช. After he is standing there, Shimon comes, and he is standing there. Okay, now he doesn't have ืืณ ืืืืช. Why? Because we said whoever is first gets the ืืณ ืืืืช. Comes Levi and puts down into the ืืณ ืืืืช of Shimon a matanah for Shimon, according to those that hold by a matanah there is a ืืื ืืณ ืืืืช, ืืชื ื for Shimon. Will Shimon be koneh this matanah? I'd like I'd like to say no, but... No, no. On one hand you could say, no, he doesn't have ืืณ ืืืืช, because the first guy came first, so the first guy took away the ืืณ ืืืืช. The second guy is going to come now, came in, there's no ืืณ ืืืืช for him. So if I put it down, there's no ืืณ ืืืืช. On the other hand, he says, I could say, when do we say the second one doesn't have ืืณ ืืืืช? ืืืื something that the first guy has a ืฉืืืืืช to. If a ืืฆืืื will come now, but a ืื has nothing to do with it... But by matanah, he gave a matanah to the second guy. So ืืืื things where the first guy has nothing to do, maybe the second guy does have ืืณ ืืืืช! Only ืืืื something with the first guy has ืฉืืืืืช. And he brings the Beit Shmuel, he taytsh's a different peshat in the Beit Shmuel in Even HaEzer, and he says according to the Beit Shmuel it comes out it takeh won't work. By a matanah, he says it takeh won't work. It won't work, because bepo'al he doesn't have ืืณ ืืืืช. So who's koneh it, Reuven? Huh? No, no, nobody is koneh it. Reuven, he didn't give it to, and he's not... That's what he brings, and the Rabbi Akiva Eiger says: I disagree with him. I think if ืืืื something that's not ื ืืืข to him, it will work. A re'ayah he has, a very geshmaka re'ayah. Something that's not ื ืืืข to the first guy, yeah, he only took away that he he made it took the ืืณ ืืืืช that the second guy can't take it ืืืื things which are ื ืืืข to both. But something that's only to the second, yes, he has a re'ayah. A very geshmaka re'ayah. The Gemara said there is no such possibility by ืืณ... If they're both standing in ืืณ ืืืืช, so the Gemara says there's no such thing as both, let's see who came first! That's what the Gemara's kushya was. So he says, if the Beis Shmuel is right, the Gemara could have answered a very simple answer. It's a chap! Rabbi Akiva Eiger's chap. A guy came to the ืืณ ืืืืช, a guy came he has his ืืณ ืืืืช, then the man came, a man came to the same ืืณ ืืืืช of the first guy. Then the woman came into the same ื' ืืืืช. They both don't have the ื' ืืืืช, because the first guy had it. And then the first guy walks away, automatically they get ื' ืืืืช. Who gets it, the man or the husband or the wife? No, at the same time. Because the ื' ืืืืช only starts now, now they're both standing there. So here we have a possibility of being, there would be ื' ืืืืช for both at the same time. Why didn't the Gemara answer that? ืืื ืกืืื, that legabei something else they still have the ื' ืืืืช. Legabei here, the first guy has nothing to do with the get. So he didn't take away the ื' ืืืืช from the second guy legabei the get. Umimeila the husband came first, so there's always somebody first. That's what he says. That's how he's ืืคืฉืืื. The
bottom line is we have a machloket here between the Beis Shmuel and Rabbi Akiva Eiger. The Beis Shmuel holds that if the guy comes first, he gets his ื' ืืืืช first, and the second guy doesn't get his ื' ืืืืช even if it's ื ืืืข to something which is not ืฉืืื to the first. The second guy has no ื' ืืืืช, no matter what. ืืฉืืจ ืื Rabbi Akiva Eiger holds, not like that, that he does. That the second guy, that only legabei this inyan which is shayach to the first, but if somebody, the first guy has no shaychut to it, but then the second guy got his ื' ืืืืช. ืก'ืืื ืืืขืจ ืึท ืืืืืงืช ืืืจืื ืื. ืืืึธืก ืืืืกื? ืึท ืื ืืื ืืึธื ืืื... ืึท ืื ืืื ืืึธื ืืืื ืขืจ ืคึฟืื ืื... ืืื ื'ืืื ืืงืืฉ... ื'ืืื ืืงืืฉ ืึท ืื, ืก'ืืื ืืึธื ืื ืืชืืจื... ืื ืืชืืจื... ืืืึธืก ืืื ืื ืคึผืจืึธืืืขื ืืึธ? ืืืึธืก ืืื? ืขืจ ืืื ืืกืคืง... ื ืึธ, ืก'ืืื ืึท ืกืคืง-ืกืคืืงื? ื ืืื! ืึธืืขืจ ืืึธ ืืื ืืืืืข ืฆืืืึทืืขื. ืคึฟืึทืจ ืืืึธืก ืืื ืึท ืกืคืง? ืื ืืืจื ืงืขื ืืึธืื ืืึธื, ืืืืื ืึท ืกืืืึธืืข ืืืืืข ืืขื ืขื ืืขืงืืืขื ืฆืืืึทืืขื. ืื ืืืจื ืืขืคืจืขืื ืืึธื, ืืืื ืขืจ ืืื ืืขืงืืืขื ืคืจืืขืจ. ืืึธืื ืื ืืืจื, ืืืืื ืืืื ืขืจ ืืื ืืขืงืืืขื ืคืจืืขืจ, ืืืึธืก ืืื ืื ืฉืืื? ืืืขืจ ืก'ืืื ืืขืงืืืขื ืคืจืืขืจ? ืืื ืขืจ ืฉืจืืื, ืืืึธืก ืืื ืฉืืื, ืืขืจ ืขื ืืคึฟืขืจ ืืื ืึทืืื: ืืขื ืขืจ ืืึธื ื ืืฉื ืงืืื ืฉืืืืืช. ืขืจ ืืึธื ื ืืฉื ืงืืื ืฉืืืืืช ืฆืื ืื. The ืื is between the second man and the wife, and the third person. The first guy came, he was the one who got the ื' ืืืืช. The other guys, the husband, the second guy, man who is the husband of the wife, came, so he doesn't have the ื' ืืืืช. Then the wife came, she also doesn't have. No one has ื' ืืืืช except the first. The moment the first guy walks away, they both get it together! So the Gemara could have answered there is a case like that. A siman that the pshat is that when he got the ื' ืืืืช and the second guy doesn't get it, it's only legabei things which the first guy shayach. But legabei things that are not shayach, the second guy gets it. So mimela the Gemara can't answer this. So we have this machloket here. What's the nekudah of the machloket? So likhora you could say the nekudah of machloket, So that being that if the third person if the person leaves and the man and woman has the ื' ืืืืช at the same time, but I thought there's no such thing as that in the Gemara. That's, that's what I asked you. Why didn't the, the Gemara says there's no such thing, why does, and according to the Beit Shmuel there would be, should be such a thing. A siman the Beit Shmuel is wrong. It's a ืงื ืึทืงืขืืืงืข ืจืืื. If it's with the get and and the two are there at the same time, the get That could be the pshat in the Mishnah, in the beraita, that if it's 50/50, she's a safek because they're both at the same ื' ืืืืช. The Gemara says it can't be. Right, but the get's only noge'a to the woman for sure, so it's Right, between the husband and the wife. The first guy has nothing to do with it. So therefore the first guy didn't take away the ื' ืืืืช ืืืื the get. So you couldn't give such a metziut. Why would it be safek? Her foot gets the get anyway because it's only, it's only shayach to her and she she has part No, it's shayach to him and to her, to the husband and the wife. That's what we're talking about. If it's his ื' ืืืืช, he is to get, and she's not divorced. If it's her ื' ืืืืช, she is divorced. So something that's noge'a to them, but not to the first guy. The first guy, he's out. ืืื ืืืื ืืืืกื ืืืื ืืึทื ืฆื ืคึฟืึทืจืฉืืืื, ืืขืจ ืขืจืฉืืขืจ ืืื ืืึธื ื ืืฉื ืงืืื ืืึทื, ืืึธืก ืืื ืืึธื ืึท ืื. ืืื ืืึธื ืึท ืื, ืขืจ ืืืื, ืขืจ ืืืื, ืขืจ ืืืื, ืืขืจ ืื ืืืื ืฆื ืืืจ, ืขืจ ืงืขื ืืื ื ืืฉื ืึธืคึผืืขืื ืืื ืืืจ, ืขืจ ืืึธื ื ืืฉื ืงืืื ืื... ืื ืงืืื ืืึธื ืฆืืืึทืืขื ืืื ืืืจ ืืึทื ืืืขืื ืื, ื ืืื? ืืึธ, ื ื! ืืึธืก ืืื ืื ืืึทื ืฆืข ืงืฉืื! ืืืึธืก ืืึธื ืืขืจ ืขืจืฉืืขืจ? ืืขืจ ืขืจืฉืืขืจ ืืึธื ืืึธื ืืึธืจื ืืฉื ืฆื ืืึธื ืืืื ืื! ื ื! ืกืึธ ืขืจ ื ืขืื ืขืก ืฆื ืื ื' ืืืืช ืคึฟืื ืขื ืื? ืืืจ ืืืืื ืืึธืื, ืืืืื ืืืช ืฉืืืื ื ืขืื ืขืจ ืืึธ ืฆื! ืคึฟืึทืจืืืึธืก? ืืึธืก ืคืจืขืื ืจื ืขืงืืื ืืืืจ, ืคึฟืึทืจืืืึธืก! ืืขืจ ืืืช ืฉืืืื ืืขื ื'ื ืึทื ืืขืจ ืขืจืฉืืขืจ ืงืืื, ื ืขืื ืขืจ ืฆื ืื ื' ืืืืช ืืืื ืึทืืฅ, ืืคืืื ืืืื ืึท ืืึทื ืืืึธืก ืืึธื ื ืืฉื ืงืืื ืฉืืืืืช ืฆื ืืื! ืืืืกื, ืคึฟืึทืจืืืึธืก? ืืึธืก ืืื ื ืืฉื ืืืืื ืก'ืืื ื ืืฉื ืฉืืื, ืืืืื ืก'ืืื ืึท ืืืื ืคึฟืื ืฆืืืืืื! ืก'ืืื ื ืืฉื ืึท ืืึทื ืืืึธืก ืืื ื ืืฉื ืฉืืื ืฆื ืืื! ืขืจ ืืึทืจืฃ ืืึธืจื ืืฉื, ืขืจ ืืื ืืึธื ืึท ืงืืจืึทืืึธืจ... What's in English? ื ื, ืคึฟืึทืจืฉืืืื ืืืืืฉ, ื ื ืคึฟืึทืจืฉืืืื! ืืืึธืก ืืึธื ืขืจ ืฆื ืืึธื ืืืื ืื? ืืขืจ ืขืจืฉืืขืจ ืงืขื ื ืืฉื... ืืขืจ ืขืจืฉืืขืจ ืงืขื ืืึธืื ื ืืฉื ืฆืืืฉืขืคึผืขื ืืขื ืื ืฆื ืื ืืืืื! He even doesn't want to take the get. ืขืจ ืืึธื ืืขืืึธืื... ืขืจ ืืื ื ืืฉื ืืขืจ ืืขื ืืืืช... ืจืืข, ืืฉ ืื ืืื ืฉืืื. ืืื ืืฉืืืจ ืื ื ืืชื ืื ืืืืฉื, ืื ืืืจืืื? ืืื? ืื, ื ื ืื ืืืื ืื ื ืืื! ืืื? What's it, what's it noge'a to our inyan here? ืฉืืคืืื ืื! ืืืืืจืื ืื! ืืชืืื ืืื ืืืืฉืืช, ืขืฉืจืื ืฉื ื... You know this, you know the story, there was a, there was an ืขืจืื'ื that you that goes around giving drashot, but he only knew one drasha on ืคืจืฉืช ืงืจื, the business with the gelt. So what did he do? So he came to every city he would come, but what should he, it's a different parasha! So he used to play around with his handkerchief, and this and then it would fall down. So he'd say, \"Uh! ืืืื ืืขืืื ืงืขื ืืืืกืื ืืืขืจื ืืื ืงืจื. ื ื, ืื ื'ืจืขืื ืฉืืื ืคืื ืงืจื'ื,\" you should you should you think of the ground like Korach. \"Oh, we're talking about Korach already! So I'll tell you a story, I hope he'll fall on Korach.\" This is a real question. I know, but it has nothing to do with it. For twenty years the woman walk because her husband don't want to give her get.
Why the rabbanim don't make ืฉืืจืืจ? Why they don't release her? That has nothing to do with it. That that's a good question. Because this is get! I'm talking about a get. You know, ืืชืืื, yesterday a a man a man, they took him a man, they took him to the court, you know, the beit din yesterday. What if he's a kohen? A what? ืื ืืืคืงืข or... What if he's a sofer, he can't write a get? He has a get, yeah? No, why, he owes them a lot of money. How about if he don't give, that's it, the woman is stuck. Of course. If he don't check out the ื' ืืืืช then give. The ื' ืืืืช is not so big. It's not so big, it's six feet all sides. The ื' ืืืืช, how many can stay in them? Yeah, six feet. Six feet all around. Square. Anyway, the bottom line is we have a machloket here. The nekudah of the machloket, the fourth machloket is, huh? I don't understand. Okay. I have it on tape. We'll listen to it again. You have to. What you don't understand? What? Rav Shapira... ืืื? ืืื ืื ืืืื? ืื ื ืื ืืืื ืื ืฉืืชื ืื ืืืื. If somebody stand in a place, so he gets his ื' ืืืืช. One second. Does that take away that, someone else comes, does it take away his ื' ืืืืช? The other guy owes, he's within ื' ืืืืช, can the first guy take away? So we said yes, the Gemara says he said yes. The question is does he take away the ื' ืืืืช from the second guy even when it's concerning something that has nothing to do with the first guy? That's right, yeah. So that's the machloket. So the Beit Shmuel says it takes away, and the Rabbi Akiva says it doesn't take away. The ืืืฉื, ืืืฉื ืืืื a get, the get has nothing to do with the first guy. Did he take away the ื' ืืืืช ืืืื the get from the second guy? So you could feel on one hand, no, he has to do with ืืืื the get, it's nothing to him. What's the difference? What's the difference if there is writing a name for this or is said, he says it's not for you, for somebody else, he can, he can pay it? What? He he says so he thinks the get is he, and it's not for him. But who's talking about... I'll buy it for him. The get. I have no, I have no idea what you're talking about, no idea. Make him tea, to the Rebbe, because he has cold a little bit. Yes. You want sugar or no? No sugar? No, I have tea already. ืืืื ืื, ืืืื ืื ืื, ืืืื ืื ืื. No, no sugar, todah rabbah. You get part of the ื' ืืืืช someone on the other side? Yeah, he gets whatever his ื' ืืืืช, yeah, but it it takes away from him, because the ื' ืืืืช the first guy has, that for sure the first guy takes away. The she'elah is, is take away ืืืื everything? And you can't you can't build layers on top of each other. The first guy comes out, the next guy doesn't have it. If he walks away, the other guy gets it, yeah. I'm saying if two other people came, so if one comes... No, that for sure that no, they both don't have. And when he walks away, they both together at the same time. Anyway, okay, I guess we're going to only say, by the way we have four ืืืืืงืช'ื here. Huh? So to explain the machloket, what I was trying to do is to
explain the machloket in a certain way and then to show that it's not oisgehalten and go to another way, but we're not going to do that, we'll just go the first way. ืื ืืืข this whole ืขื ืื, oh, ืื ืืืข this whole ืขื ืื of ื' ืืืืช... Oh, no, thank you very much. ืื ืืืข this whole ืืื of ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช the ืจืื ื made, make a ืชืงื ื. You explain the whole thing, and nobody nobody interrupt, so you have time to explain. Yeah. You agree? Yeah, but I don't I don't get answer about this get. ืืืจ ืื, ืืืจ ืื. ืืืจ ืื. So in this Kuntres Inyana Shel Toras HaChassidus, the Rebbe has a whole ืืจืืืืช here about the ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช. He's using this as an example to a ืขื ืื ืืืกืืืืช, but he brings it in ื' ืืืืช. And here the the what he says here and going through the ืืขืจืืช, he brings an Avnei Miluim. But the Avnei Miluim brings that there is a ืืืืืงืช between the Ramban and the Ran. So, the Rebbe brings here: The Ran learns, explaining how did the, what form did the ืืืืื make the ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช? And this is what they did: They made that your ื' ืืืืช becomes your ืืฆืจ. How does ื' ืืืืช ืงืื ื? We know that ืืืืืจืืืชื there's a ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ. Came the ืจืื ื and they said not only a ืืฆืจ which is ืืืืจืืืชื, your ื' ืืืืช becomes your ืืฆืจ. And since it's your ืืฆืจ, automatically you're koneh. Look what the, I'll use the lashon of the Rabbi: ืืฃ ืฉืืชืงื ื ืืื ืฉืืืคืฅ ืืืื ื ืื' ืืืืชืื ืฉืื ืืงื ื ืื, the purpose is that the object that comes into your ื' ืืืืช you should get, ืืื ืืงืื, ืืฉืืื ืงื ืื ืืืคืฅ ืืงื ื ืื ืืืืื ืืช ืื' ืืืืช ืขืฆืื, because in order to get the chafetz, they made the ื' ืืืืช his, ืืขืฉืืื ืืืฆืจื, and they made it like a ืืฆืจ, ืืขื ืืื ืื ืืืืืื ืงืื ื ืื ืืช ืืืคืฅ ืืืื ื ืืชืืื ืืชืืจืช ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ. So, you're going to get it out of ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ because the ืจืื ื made that your ื' ืืืืช turn into ืืฆืจ. ืงื ืื ืืืืจืืืชื? No, it's they can't make a ืืืืจืืืชื, but they took the ืืื ืืืืจืืืชื and they said that it's similar we're making that your ื' ืืืืช becomes your ืืฆืจ. ืืืื, he says, ืงืื ืฉืืื ืื ืืฆืจ ืืื ืื ื' ืืืืช. A ืงืื doesn't require a ื' ืืืืช. ืืื ืฉืื ืื ืฉืืงื ื ืืืืื ืืืื ืืช ื' ืืืืชืื, the fact that that the ืืืืื gave him his ื' ืืืืช becomes his ืืฆืจ, ืืื ืจืง ืืืื ืชืืจืช ืงื ืื ืืคืฅ ืืืื ื ืืื. Not becomes it becomes yours because of your property, ืืืื the ืงื ืื, ืืื ืืขื ืื ืืืจ. Okay. Huh? A katan has a yad. Yeah. But by ketanah it must be ืืืื if you tell her yad. No, not ืืฆืจ and not ื' ืืืืช, but the Gemara has this sugya right after this, it's a sugya like that. So, the Rabbi brings here this is the shita of the Ran. And then he said, according to the Ramban, he said ืืืืื ื ืืืืืืื ืืชื ืฉืืืขืช ืืจืืืดื ืื ืืงื ื ืืืืื ืืงืื ืื' ืืืืช ืขืฆืื, they did not give him the ื' ืืืืช ืขืฆืื, ืื ืื ืืช ืืืคืฅ ืืืื ื ืื, only the ืืคืฅ is laying there, ืืจืื ืืืื ื ืืืืืืื ืฉืืืขืช ืืจืดื ืืงื ื ืืช ืื' ืืืืช ืขืฆืื. So, the bottom line is we have here two ืฉืืืืช ืืืื: Whether the way they made the ื' ืืืืช they made the ื' ืืืืช your ืืฆืจ, or they made, nothing to do with a ืืฆืจ, they made a ืืื that a, that the ืืคืฅ that falls in is becomes like that. Lichora, based on these two ืฉืืืืช, we can explain all four machlokot. Let's start with the first. ืืืื the ืงื ืื only. But, obviously, it's only ืืืื this. But it's like ืืฆืจ, that's the first the broader opinion. What were the two the first machloket? The first machloket was, does it apply to everything, ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช, or only to a ืืฆืืื? By a ืื, ืืฉืื ืขืืื ื, only by ืืฆืืื. So, lichora, you can say very simple: If you hold that they made it into your ืืฆืจ, they didn't deal with what you are ืงืื ื. They made that this is your ืืฆืจ and automatically the ืืฆืจ is
ืงืื ื, then it should be by ืืงื ืืืืืจ also. Is it makes sense? So, that's the shita of those that hold that by ืืงื that the Rambam and the others hold by ืืงื ืืืืืจ also, because they gave you the ืืฆืจ. But if you hold they didn't give you the chatzer, they said that certain things that come in, so they can make chilukim. Everything that a person makes comes into, if they make a chatzer, it's one din, so everything should be. So, the opinion of the others who hold that it doesn't, like for instance, the Rosh, that hold that it's only by metziah and not, because they didn't make it your chatzer. So, that's that's that machloket. The second machloket, whether you have to say or not. What was the Rabbeinu Yonah's re'ayah that you do have to say? If by chatzer you have to say, he said, by ืืฆืจ ืฉืืื ื ืืฉืชืืจืช you have to say, you have to say here, too. Comes, so, no, by chatzer not and here yes. So, lichorah, you can explain it very simple: If you hold that kinyan is like a chatzer, so it has the din like a chatzer. By a chatzer you have to say, so you have to say here, too. But if you hold that it's a special din, has nothing to do with a chatzer, the chachamim made a new kinyan that falls into his ื' ืืืืช is koneh, then who says you have to say? Who says you have to say? They'll even give, somebody gave the ืคืจืืื that saying accomplishes that it becomes part of the chatzer, whatever, but we understand that if it's a ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ, the chachamim talked about the ื' ืืืืช themselves and made it a chatzer, so you don't you have to say like by chatzer, otherwise you don't have to say. The
other machloket, that according to the Nimukei Yosef, only by ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช if you say, if you show that you don't want, you're not koneh, but by ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ you still would be koneh. Mah she'ein kein the Rashba and the the Ran, they learn no, chatzer and ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช are the same. Very simple: If you hold it comes from, that ื' ืืืืช is what the ืืืืื made it into your ืืฆืจ, so how could you make a ืืืืืง between ืืฆืจ and ื' ืืืืช? Whatever the ืืื is by ืืฆืจ is the ืืื by ื' ืืืืช, it has to be the same. That's what they hold. One holds in both yes, the other holds in both not, but they're both the same. So, the Nimukei Yosef will learn that it's not a ืืื in the ืืฆืจ, they didn't make it a ืืฆืจ, what they did was they said the ืืคืฅ is they made a ืืื that whatever comes in the, the object belongs to him. So, if so, they had a, it's a whole nother ืืืื if you have to say. And the same thing would be ืื ืืืข the fourth ืืืืืงืช, ืืืืืงืช between Rabbi Akiva Eiger and the and the Beit Shmuel. What does the Beit Shmuel say? That if you came first to the ื' ืืืืช, It's yours, when the second guy comes in, he gets no ื' ืืืืช, even regarding things which have nothing to do with the first guy. While Rabbi Akiva Eiger holds, no, it's only regarding things have to do with you, but ืืืื other guys and things that don't have to do with you, he gets the ื' ืืืืช. It's also for the same reason. If you hold a ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ a ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช is a ืงื ืื of ืืฆืจ, has nothing to do with the ืงื ืื, that's already a result. So it's a ืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช, regardless of it'll be ื ืืืข to you, not ื ืืืข to you, ืืืืื gave this, and this became your ืืฆืจ. So it became your ืืฆืจ, and now you and you're first, and you got the ืืฆืจ first, he doesn't have it, so even if he will come later and if that something is not ื ืืืข to him, but it's still, he doesn't have the ืืฆืจ. But if you're saying it's a ืืื in what you are ืงืื ื, then obviously, if what you're ืงืื ื is ื ืืืข to you, ืืืื that you're ืงืื ื. If it's something that's not ื ืืืข to you, you don't have the ื' ืืืืช. So why should I take away the ื' ืืืืช of another guy? So ืืืืืจื, it sounds very good and fine that this whole ื ืงืืื the way the ืืืืืงืช where the Rabbi brings here could explain all four ืืืืืงืืช. The truth is, it's late, but I'll tell you that it's not true what I said. Not true what? What I said. The ืืืืืจ I gave is not good. Not true. The Rebbe didn't write it? No, this the Rebbe wrote. Not the, this is this is there, but I want to use this as that will explain the other ืืืืืงืช'ื. Not at all. Take the first one. The first ืืืืืงืช whether it goes on ืืงื ืืืืืจ or not. What did I say? If you're ืงืื ื the ืืฆืจ, if you're ืงืื ื the ืืฆืจ, if it becomes your ืืฆืจ, then it goes by everything. If it's not your ืืฆืจ, then you could make differences. So number one there'll be a problem: the Ramban holds that it's not your ืืฆืจ, and yet holds it goes on ืืงื ืืืืืจ, too. So we can't say it depends on this. But the ืขืืงืจ is here, if you look here, I'll read again what the Rebbe said, if you recall what the Rebbe said, you'll see it's not it's not right what I said. He said like this: that they made the ืงื ืื, he said they made the ื' ืืืืช your ื' ืืืืช ืืฉืื ืืืฆืืจื, they made it like your ืืฆืจ, by this that ืืืืื you're ืงืื ื anything there, and then he adds, ืืื ืฉืื ืื ืฉืชืืงื ื ืืืืื ื' ืืืืช ืืื ืจืง ืืฆืืจื ืงื ืื ืืืคืฅ, only ืืืื that. And then he says weiter, only ืืืื the object, he says, yeah, and then he says, what? It's only it's only ืืืื, yeah, ืืืื being ืงืื ื, so the Rebbe says, only ืืืื being ืงืื ื, so, and he says they made a they made it your ืืฆืจ, and let me see here on the bottom here, the ืืขืจื here, once, yeah, it's only ืืืื this. And then he says, ืฉืืื ืกืืืจื ืืื ืืืชืืกืคืืช ืืืจื\"ืฉ, because they only made it ืืืื certain things, that's why Tosafos and the Rosh holds ืฉื' ืืืืช ืงืื ืืช ืืื ืืื they are ืงืื ื ืืื ืืื, ืืฃ ืฉืขืฉื ืืืืื ืืืฆืืจื ืืืื ื ืงืื ื ืืื ืืื, ืืืืืืจื ืืืชื ื they're not ืงืื ื ืืืืืจื ืืืชื ื, why, ืืฃ ืฉืขืฉื ืืืืื ืืืฆืืจื, even though they made it into ืืฆืจ, ืื ืื ืขืฉื ืืืฆืืจื ืืื ืืืจ, ืื ืื ืืฆืืจื ืงื ืื ืืืคืฅ ืืคื ื ืืฆืืื. So the Rebbe says clearly here that it's possible to learn that it became your ืืฆืจ, and still make differences between ืืงื I tried to say that if it became your ืืฆืจ, it's automatically everything. The Rebbe says clearly not! That they could make it ืืฆืจ and nevertheless, only ืืืื certain things. So obviously, the ืืืืืจ that I said is nisht oisgehalten. And now when I say the second ืืืืืจ, the second ืขื ืื we said that whether you have to say or not, if it's your ืืฆืจ, you have to say. If it's your ืืฆืจ, you have to say, and if it's if you don't, you have to say I want to be ืงืื ื, because like by ืืฆืจ. But if it's not like a ืืฆืจ, they do the ืงื ืื, then you don't have to say. So I wanted to say that the the Ramach, or the one that holds that you don't have to say, holds because it's not like a ืืฆืจ. A ืื also, you have to say? Huh? A ืื? No, a ืื according to the ืฉืืื, you have to say, according to ืฉืืื. Then it's just a ืืคืฅ that's ืงืื ื, not Exactly. So, so according to this, that's that's worse. Let's look at this here, weiter. The
Rebbe asks a ืงืฉืื here, and he answers ืขื ืคื ืืกืืืืช. What's the ืงืฉืื? ืื ืืืืช ืฉืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช ืืื ืืืขื ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ, the Rebbe is going here according to the sevara that it's like your ืืฆืจ, ืขื ืื ืื ืขืืืฃ ืืื ืืงื ืื ืืฆืจ. It's still better than chatzer. Why? ืืฆืจ ืืื ื ืืฉืชืืจืช, you're not ืงืื ื ืขื ืฉืืืืจ ืืืชื ืื ืฉืื. ืืืืื ืื' ืืืืช, ืืื ืฆืจืื ืืืืจ ืืืชื. You don't have to say, which is according the ืฉืืื of the Ramach. Yeah. And a ืงื ืื ืืืช ืืื ืื ืืืชืื. ืืฆืจืื ืืืืืจ. So the Rebbe asks, ืืืื ืฉืื ื' ืืืืช ืืื ืืืขื ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ, since we're holding that ื' ืืืืช is a ืงื ืื ืืฆืจ, ืืื ืืคืฉืจ ืฉืงื ืื ื' ืืืืช ืืื ืขืืื ืืงื ืื ืืฆืจ? How could it be stronger than chatzer? By chatzer you have to say, and here you don't have to say, the Rebbe asks. And he answers, that that's together of ื' ืืืืช ืืืืื ืฉืื ืคืฉ. L'chorah, according to what I said, the Rebbe should have answered very simple, that those that hold that you don't have to say, hold that it's not ืืืขื ืืฆืจ. Right. Assumingly the Rebbe doesn't hold like that. The Rebbe holds that it could be chatzer and you still don't have to and and still you don't have to say, and he's looking for a ืืืืืจ. And he didn't give a ืืืืืจ ืขื ืคื ื ืืื, he gave a ืืืืืจ ืขื ืคื ืืกืืืืช. But he's looking for a ืืืืืจ. Ul'chorah the simple I have a simple ืืืืืจ: adaraba, those ืฉืืืืช ืืืงื don't hold, they hold that it's not ืืืขื ืืฆืจ! Assumingly that what I said that if you hold that you don't have to say because it's not chatzer, is not true. Whoever wants to say ืงื ืืื ืืฆืจ, it's like chatzer, and still you don't have to. Like ืืฆืจ, ื' ืืืืช is We're talking about ื' ืืืืช has a din of chatzer. But that's the Rebbe's she'eilah. And he answers a biur with that the ื' ืืืืช ืฉื ืืื ืืชืคืฉื ืืืืืื, therefore they're ืงืื ื ืืขืฆื without even saying, because ืืืืื ืฉืื ืคืฉ is there no matter what. So l'chorah this biur is not so... Should we stop here and continue? Yeah, we
got to go. In ืงื ืืื ืืฆืจ you have to say, because it's so ืืงืืฃ... Here ืืืืื is there and everything else comes in. ืื, halacha lemaaseh... No, matter is ืืชืคืฉื. Halacha lemaaseh... ื' ืืืืช is very simple between ื' ืืืืช ืืื ืื. ืจืืข, ืืื ืื ื, ืื ื ืืคื ืืืืจ ืืืฆืจ ืฉืื, ืฉืื ืื ืื ืฉืื? ืืืืจ ืฉื ืืฉืื ืื. If the football go to my to my yard, It's yours. One football. Foot football. The neighbor's football. Shut the deal, claim it. Claim it, claim it. You say ืืืฆืจ, that's if it's ืืคืงืจ, or I'm giving you a matana, or I'm selling it to you. But ืกืชื somebody If it comes to my ืืจืืข ืืืืช, So, send it back. Send it back? It's mine! No. Okay, I'm going to give him back. Fine. S'iz geshmak, s'iz doch nisht aza geshmak azoy. So how did the Rebbe answer? He says that the ื' ืืืืช is connected to the ืืืืื ืฉืื ืคืฉ, and ืืืืื is always there, you don't have to say anything, because ืืขืฆื there, you don't have to say definitely not today. Even though it's ืงื ืืื ืืฆืจ, you don't have to say it for that reason. What I was going to say is that if this ืชืืจืืฅ ืขื ืคื ืืกืืืืช, I have a ืชืืจืืฅ ืขื ืคื ื ืืื. Yeah. Evidently, because otherwise the Rebbe usually doesn't do that, ask a kashya in nigleh and then doesn't answer. So what, that's the punch line. You got to tell it. You know what? Next week, I didn't plan to have a shiur, we'll have a shiur to finish this. A whole shiur? Yes. And let's go figure it out. I'm working on it. Because so you have the four ืืืืืงืช'ื, how to fit in the four ืืืืืงืช'ื different than what we just said before, but it's ืืืืกื on what the Rebbe says. If you don't have an answer to put up in nigleh, then you don't answer nothing, just know ืขื ืคื ืืกืืืืช. The ืืืืื is a ืืงืืฃ ืืืงืืฃ, so you would have to bring it in with with with ืืคืืขื with with... Now, look look at look at this. And and usually the Rebbe didn't, whenever you wrote the sicha, a kashya in nigleh and the answer ืขื ืคื ืืกืืืืช, the Rebbe was upset. He says, \"You have to answer nigleh first, and then...\" ืงืืื ืืืจื ืืคืฉื, ื ืื ืืขื ืืืจื ื... Yeah. And here that so I'm telling you that there's ืืจืืื a ืชืืจืืฅ ืขื ืคื ื ืืื in this in this... Does the Rebbe doesn't answer it up in anywhere else, it's just this is the inyan? He doesn't answer it anywhere else. Talks about ื' ืืืืช other places. Yeah, other places, he talks about ื' ืืืืช, which is ื ืืืข in a different chelek, ื\"ื, which I was going to bring in, but... So when I finish, I sting with a kashya, I told the bochurim always, \"I just hope you'll be able to sleep tonight, because maybe it will bother you so much, you won't be able to sleep.\" This for ื' ืืืืช in each direction, or is ื' ืืืืช Square, square. Depends where you stand. Could be standing on the edge? No. ื' ืืืืช in each direction. I
thought it's really eight ืืืืช by eight ืืืืช. But well, it's a circle, it's not a square, circle eight ืืืืช in diameter. It's al derech like Shabbos, where you can't carry ื' ืืืืช, yeah, and it's also, really since it's ื' ืืืืช ืืจืืืขืื, square, so the Rambam says you're only chayav if you go with the one How much is it, square in the circle? Something more. Pi. And therefore, and since we don't know you're standing it's a square, but we don't know where your square is. Is it like this? Is it like is it like this? Is it like this? So every side we have to count it as if it's the end of square. So that's why it gives you more than ื' ืืืืช. So lechatchila you can't carry even ื' ืืืืช, but to be chayav, you're only chayav if you carry more. It was just that point, that's what... You got behind you, you got in front of you, you got the both to both sides. Does a person have to say, \"I want to be koneh\"? Do they have to say, according to everyone? No, that's a machloket. No, that's a machloket. The Shulchan Aruch brings also the ืืขืืช. So automatically, when you see something, And if you want to be koneh with your ื' ืืืืช, you have to say according to the ืคืืจืืฉ, you got to say, \"Let it be ืงืื ื, I want to be ืงืื ื in the ื' ืืืืช.\" You don't you have to. If you don't have to say, it's automatically yours, if it's ืืคืงืจ. ืื ืืืืืกื ืงืื ื ืืืื? If you want to be ืงืื ื it? You have to be wanting to be ืงืื ื. No, every Yid who needs wants to be ืงืื ื ืืืฅ. What, ืคืจืฉืช ืคืดื? ืขืดื ืคืดื? I think Beshalach. Beshalach. Can you say that when when a person stands Good luck, I'm going to go to the bathroom. We'll figure it out. stands in a place and the object that's ืฉืืื to him, in the case of the ืื or whatever, these two, that has gained back, meets together in a place, k'ilu they they ืงืื ื the ืืงืื, this ืืงืื is only ืฉืืื for for these two ืขื ืื ืื, for the for the person and the object. Right, ืืืื that, for sure, yeah. And then then this would explain the the the machloket. Because then only if if a person stands in a place and there is a connection between the person and the object that's ืฉืืื to this person Right, that's that's the Rabbi Akiva Eiger's sevara. they're both together both together. But the Beis Shmuel doesn't hold like that. Then they they k'ilu they ืืืืื ืงืื ื ืืืงืื. But the Beis Shmuel says even if it's something it's not ื ืืืข. is like a ืืฆืจ, ืจืง ืืืื the object and the person. That's for sure. But what happens if it's ืืืื an object it's not ื ืืืข to the first person? Then you're not ืงืื ื. Not ืงืื ื, ืืืื, but not only he's not ืงืื ื the ืื, the ืื is is not is not ืงืื ื is not called ืืฆืจ, there's not there's not this connection. You need the two things. The person that's ืฉืืื and the object, and the object together. Yeah, but ืืคืฉืืืช, you could say if the ืืฆืจ is something before the ืงื ืื, the ืืืืื gave you the the ืืณ ืืืืช. What's ื ืืืข what's going to happen later? So no matter ืืืื what, this is your ืืณ ืืืืช. So even ืืืื something that's not shayach to you, you have the ืืณ ืืืืช first. That would be bipshat the sevara in in in the Beit Shmuel's sevara. Thank you very much. Feels a little unstable. What was the Rebbe's question? The Rebbe's question in the end was The Rebbe said like this: He goes according to the sevara that it's like chatzer. And by chatzer you have to say, how come here A ืืณ ืืืืช is like a chatzer? Right, that's who said that, the Gra. That's the Shaagat Aryeh. No, no, that the Shaagat Aryeh says you have to say. You have to say. So therefore, why why here you don't have to say? Why where? Which one? By ืืณ ืืืืช, why don't you have to say? Why, because According to the chatzer you have to say, why isn't it the same? So I tried to explain. What I said was that the one that that you have to say, holds it's like chatzer. The one that says you don't have to say, because he goes the other shita that it's the kinyan of the cheftz, it's not chatzer. But then the Rebbe would have said it. The Rebbe says it's chatzer and still it should fit. Yeah, how? He asked the kashya, why? But obviously what he's saying is He didn't answer, but obviously that shita holds that it's not chatzer. He goes that shita also holds it's chatzer. Could you say that the kavanah takes place of the of the of the of the of the speech of the of the saying? Yashar koach, thank you. Could kavanah in that case take the place of of dibbur? Enjoy. Kavanah can... you don't have to have dibbur. It's an electrical one, right? Or you have to have dibbur, and if not, you don't need it. Yashar koach, thank you. We we all have to think about this before tomorrow. I see. Now he would be entitled to fix I felt like I understood it, but I Very geshmak. Very geshmak. Very geshmak. When someone asks questions, it click makes a lot of sense, and and I have to I have to just ignore What he's saying is, already I was I already regular I was having anxiety the moment he sat down. Yeah, yeah. Well, that was justified because he wouldn't have known That's why. But for some reason, that's how because he's not... I knew it, I knew he was screaming, but it's wonderful. So But there's like I mean, there's like 16 different view points here. You've got four machlokot's, but in each one you've got two situations, but there's really That's two sevarot, yeah. two sevarot and it's like And what I was to finish off the other half is to make another eight. Oh, another eight? Wonderful. To break everything up into I'm going to write I'm going to write this down. Give you something to do. It's great homework. Yashar koach. Just finish 20 minutes in the Rambam, one one a day about taharah. And about, what is it, ืืคืฆื ืืืจืื? ืืงืื ืฉ... Well, thank Jeff, I'm learning little by little, you know, I have to keep coming back. A ืืคืฅ is a ืืคืฅ, ืื ืคืืจืืฉ ืืคืฆื ืืืจืื? Really? Good to learn It's good to learn everything. Keep keep