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EIN YAAKOV

Nedarim 64b

Datan, Aviram, and the Danger of Making Vows

Part of Ein Yaakov · 24:36

Ties the story of Datan and Aviram to a Rebbe story about praying for children, then turns to the halachos of nedarim -- loopholes, the Sotah test, and why making vows should be avoided altogether.

Audio Transcript
Datan and Aviram linked to standing verses

אמר רבי יוחנן משום רבי שמעון בן יוחי, Rabbi Yochanan said in the name of Rabbi Shimon ben Yochai: כל מקום שנאמר נצים נצבים, אינם אלא דתן ואבירם. Wherever it says in the Torah that these people were standing נצים or נצבים, which means with with ga'avah, with with with arrogance, it always goes on Datan va'Aviram. פרעגט די Gemara: אלא מאי? So what's the pshat in the pasuk, כי מתו כל האנשים? Datan va'Aviram were the ones that mesared on Moshe Rabbeinu to Par'oh that he killed the Mitzri. Then the Aibershter said to him, you can go back now because the people who who died already. So they died already means Datan va'Aviram died. How could it be later in Chumash we find Datan va'Aviram with everything? Aniyim? די Gemara answers, אמר ריש לקיש, שירדו מנכסיהם. They became poor, and a person who's poor is like dead. תניא, it says in the ברייתא, ד׳ חשובים כמת: four people are considered like dead: עני, poor man, ומצורע, guy who has leprosy, וסומא, guy is blind, ומי שאין לו בנים, somebody who doesn't have children. די Gemara brings ראיות from pesukim. עני, where do we see if you're poor it's like you're dead? דכתיב, it says, כי מתו כל האנשים, it says on Datan vaAviram they died, and they didn't die, they just became poor. So we see that's like death. מצורע, דכתיב by Miriam when she became מצורע, so it says אל נא תהי כמת. Moshe was davening to the Eibershter she should not be like a מת. In other words, now she's like a מת. That means that she's when she was only a מצורע. סומא, דכתיב it says, במחשכים הושיבני כמתי עולם. You put me into the darkness like the dead people. You hear that, that was only for seven days? What? Whatever, מצורע, how long does that last? Not seven days, it could last for years. Oh, it just worked out that the By her it was seven days. Normal מצורע you never know till, sometimes it's for life. Because the davening helped. Yeah, Moshe Rabbeinu davend. Because it says במחשכים הושיבני כמתי עולם, it says you put me darkness like the dead. That means a person, by him it's dark, he can't see, he's like dead. ומי שאין לו בנים, where do we see if somebody has no children? דכתיב, it says, Rachel said to Yaakov: הבה לי בנים ואם אין מתה אנכי. Bring me children or else I'm dead. So we see someone doesn't have children feels dead. Okay. זאגט די גמרא weiter, תניא. מעשה של הרבי, הא? מעשה של הרבי. גם אני she said, I think so, that lady. I also don't have, yeah. That story that I told. Yeah.

Rebbe's tale about praying for children

השם יעזור. Actually, I think the Rebbe told this to Reb Yoel. He used to go up every big farbrengen to the Rebbe in the middle of farbrengen to ask for a bracha for children. Who, Yoel? Reb Yoel Kahan. He didn't have? He doesn't have. So the Rebbe, I think, said l'chaim for a bracha, I don't know. Finally, once the Rebbe told him, \"I also don't have.\" Pshh. That's it, that's then he stopped. Wow. Yeah. שיגעון, הוא נותן לכולם, ולעצמו לא יכול. אין אסיר מתיר עצמו מבית האסורים. הא? Yeah, also. He adopted a girl. He has an adopted daughter. So די Gemara תניא, it says in the braita: המודר הנאה מחבירו, if someone makes a neder he should not have any hanaah from his friend, אין מתירין לו אלא בפניו. So in order to be matir that neder, it has to be in front of that person that he made a neder about. מנא הני מילי? From where do we know this? דאמר רב נחמן, Rav Nachman said like this: דכתיב, it says, ויאמר ה׳ אל משה במדין, Hashem said, after Hashem spoke to Moshe, to asked him to told him to go to Mitzrayim, and so Hashem spoke to Moshe במדין, tell him to go. So it says, אמר ליה, he said to him like this: What does the Torah have to mention it to Midyan? We know he was in Midyan. He said to him like this: במדין נדרת, you made a neder not to leave. Well, where did you make a neder? Midyan. לך והתר נדרך במדין. You have to go make be matir your neder in Midyan. Where do we see he made a neder in Midyan to Yitro? דכתיב, it says, ויואל משה לשבת את האיש, Moshe agreed to sit, to live with that person, but the word ויואל also the word אלה, ואין אלה אלא שבועה. The word אלה is another word for a shevuah. כתיב it says, ויבא אתו באלה, which means to make the shevuah. And כתיב it says, וגם במלך נבוכדנאצר so here it doesn't how do we know here it's a shevuah? Because this is a pasuk in Yechezkel. But it says another pasuk says ובמלך נבוכדנאצר מרד that צדקיה המלך it said was made a was a rebel against Nebuchadnezzar. And what happened? אשר השביעו באלקים. He made him swear, and he didn't keep his swear, his shevuah, and that was the rebellion. The Gemara will explain. מאי מרידותיה? What happened, the the מרידה? This happened. אשכחיה צדקיהו לנבוכדנאצר דקאכיל ארנבתא חייתא.

Nebuchadnezzar, Zedekiah, and the forbidden oath

Zedekiah happened to see Nebuchadnezzar eating a live rabbit live. So or two peshatim: or live means not cooked, or live means pashut live, he ate a piece when it was alive. And it was very embarrassing for Nebuchadnezzar. אמר ליה נבוכדנאצר לצדקיהו, so Nebuchadnezzar to צדקיהו, אישתבע לי דלא מגלית עלי. Swear that you won't tell it to anybody. דלא תיתזיל מילתא, it shouldn't be embarrassing for me. So he made him swear. אישתבע ליה, he swore. לסוף הוה קא מצטער צדקיהו בגופיה. Zedekiah felt Zedekiah felt bad, he really, really wanted to tell. He wanted people to know that Nebuchadnezzar is a lowlife. He wanted he it bothered him, he should tell. איתשיל אשבועתו, so he went and he was shoel on his neder, which he was matir neder. וגליא ליה, and he went and revealed it, told people. שמע נבוכדנאצר דקא מבזיל ליה רברביה, so Nebuchadnezzar heard that the officers are all speaking about him, mevazeh him, they're they're embarrassing him. שלח, he sent, ואייתיה לסנהדרין ולצדקיהו. He brought the Sanhedrin and Zedekiah, cuz who is matir the neder? It's Sanhedrin. So he has complaints to Zedekiah, why and to to the Sanhedrin. אמר להו, he said to them, חזיתון מאי עביד צדקיהו? Tells the Sanhedrin, don't don't you see what Zedekiah did? לאו הכי הוה דאישתבע בשמא דשמיא דלא מגלית? Isn't it that he swore in the name of Hashem that he's not going to reveal? אמר ליה, so Tzidkiyahu answered, איתשילי אשבועתי. I took a swear, but I was מתיר נדר, I was מתיר a shevuah. אמר להו, so he said to them, מיתשלי אנשבועתא? Nevuchadnetzar didn't know. He says to the Sanhedrin, is there such a thing, a being מתיר a shevuah? אמרו ליה, they said, \"אין\", yes. אמר להו, so he said to them, בפניו או אפילו שלא בפניו? When you're מתיר נדר that you made to somebody, do you have to do it in front of him or not? אמרו ליה, they said, בפניו. Yes, they do it in front of him. אמר להו, so he said to them, ואתון מאי עבידתון? What did you do? How are you מתיר his נדר not in front of me? מאי טעמא לא אמריתון לצדקיהו, why didn't you say to צדקיהו we cannot be מתיר your נדר, because it's not in front of him? מיד, right away it says, ישבו לארץ ידמו זקני בת ציון, that the elders of Zion sat down on the ground and they became quiet. אמר רבי יצחק, Rabbi Yitzchak says, מלמד ששמטו כרים מתחתיהם. They pulled out their pillows from under them, and normally they used to not sit on chairs, they on on the floor, but they used to sit on pillows. But they wanted to show how הוא הוא הרג אותם, no? הוא הרג את כל הסנהדרין. Not not at this point. אני אני קראתי שהוא הרג אותם. After this? Yeah. שהוא אמר איך אתם מתירים לי, בגלל זה הוא הרג את כולם. I don't remember, that could be I don't remember that, I don't Yeah, they killed them all. I think they dragged them through the streets. Yeah, Tied them to the tails of horses and dragged them through the streets. And they killed them. Yeah, it says that. dragged through the streets. Dragging through the streets is probably That's probably what the Midrash says, yeah, probably killed them. Yeah, killed them all. But but the Gemara says here that they what they did was, it says they sat on the ground. That means till then they had a pillow under them, and then they pulled the pillows out out of tza'ar, from being feeling bad that they they did something wrong and they have nothing to answer. But the bottom line is, b'noge'a to our Gemara is, that you have to be מתיר נדר only בפניו, only in front of the person, not שלא בפניו. So the Gemara weiter, there's a Mishnah. ועוד

Rabbi Meir on opening a loophole for vows

אמר רבי מאיר, it says in the Mishnah like this, Rabbi Meir said, פותחין לו מן הכתוב שבתורה. There's a din to be מתיר נדר, you have to have a פתח חרטה. You have to have some kind of way of of charatah. You can't just come to a chacham or to a beis din and they say, \"Okay, your neder is off.\" What you have to do is you have to say like this: had I known this and this thing, I wouldn't have made it, they ask him, or he says, \"I wouldn't have made it.\" Oh, so you have a פתח חרטה, you have some kind of opening, so you do it. So here, Rabbi Meir said, you could even have an opening from the pasuk. Meaning, אומר לו you could say to the guy, אילו היית יודע שאתה עובר על לא תקום ועל לא תטור, had you known when you made a neder like not to help somebody, Now usually we would have a פתח חרטה, had I known that I need to do it, I would I didn't know that it was going to come to a point or to do it, Yeah, it says, yeah. Nehergu? It was a chilul Hashem, but did they deserve death? They killed them. Did they deserve it, they were מורד במלכות? I mean they were What made them מורד במלכות against against Nevuchadnetzar, yeah. Anyway, so he says if they, so normally you say a פתח חרטה is had I known this would happen, I wouldn't have made a neder. What happens had I known that it's an aveirah? That by by making a neder not to help somebody I'm עובר על לא תקום, it's sometimes it's it's it's it's nekamah, it's it's revenge, לא תטור, לא תטור is that you even you're not allowed to remember something bad that somebody did to you, or לא תשנא את אחיך בלבבך, you'll be עובר on the pasuk where it says, do not hate your brother in your heart, I'll be עובר on the you're עובר on the פסוק ואהבת לרעך כמוך, then you're עובר on the פסוק וחי אחיך עמך, שהוא עני, in the case where the guy is poor and you can't give him now because of your neder. So they asked him, had you known if by doing that you'll be עובר on aveirah What would he So a strange thing, when he didn't know it's an aveirah? Yes, he didn't know. So that's enough of a פתח חרטה. אמר, if he answered אילו הייתי יודע שהוא כן לא הייתי נודר, had I known that this is so, I wouldn't have made a נדר, הרי זה מותר. Then it could be מתיר the neder. That was it. פתח חרטה doesn't have to be only on the circumstances of the neder, a general idea. Had I known that this is an aveirah. They spoke before about Nebuchadnezzar, how did he know it has to be בפניו? He didn't know. והראיה, they answered that when he asked, does it have to be בפניו, he said yes. Why did they do it in the first place? Because it's because בשמים they wanted to do for Zidkiyahu. Zidkiyahu was the מלך. Nevuchadnetzar was, but he was the מלך ישראל. So really Zidkiyahu is he did something wrong. He Yeah, yeah, so they probably because of that. Otherwise I don't know, but otherwise why did they knew it, והראיה they answered him that, but they felt בשמים because of the מלך, on Zidkiyahu you have to do it. נהרגו, the Gemara, no? Zidkiyahu נהרג. Yeah, Zidkiyahu נהרג. But why did they do it knowing that it's אסור? Because they felt that because of כבוד מלכות, I guess. I don't know, maybe somebody says something, let me see. Why would Zidkiyahu rely on it? Because he really wanted to He wanted to tell people, yeah. כבוד מלכות, yeah. כבוד מלכות, same thing, yeah. Let's see if it says before, maybe a reason. כל הסנהדרין, so he was suffering because he couldn't get this So well, and he couldn't tell people. Yeah, but he was really suffering, so he couldn't even learn Torah. Oh, the Maharsha says why they did it. משום חילול השם, כיון דלא Oh. The truth is he wasn't, he didn't need it really to be מתיר נדר. Because what he said was, \"I swear בה' אלקי ישראל, I won't be מגלה. I won't tell.\" He had in mind, \"I won't tell אלקי ישראל. I won't tell God. I swear by God I won't tell.\" So he meant the peshat, \"God I won't tell. I won't tell to God.\" And they took and really and he understood, he meant that's why. So really it wasn't they didn't even have to be מתיר נדר. But not to be a חילול השם so they had to be מתיר נדר, because otherwise they say they know it. So mimela they didn't do an עבירה, but he got them by this, yeah, and that's why, that's what the Maharsha says here. Then it turned into a חילול השם. Huh? Then it turned into The other way, yeah, yeah, yeah. על דעת בית דין על דעת בית דין Oh, but this was not בית דין, this is Nevuchadnetzar, yeah. Yeah. See, normally when you swear in בית דין, you can't come and say I meant something else, because you swear על דעת בית דין. You swear that I say according to the meaning the way the בית דין thinks, בית דין understands it. It would have been better if he said it like that. That would have been his his loophole. He said it like that? No, he there was no בית דין there, he swore in front of Nevuchadnetzar. He didn't have to say, it didn't have to be there. I'm just saying that as as beit din would pasak. I would swear as if Okay. No, here Normally when you swear, so the guy can have all kinds of things in his mind when he's swearing, so it says you swear על דעת בית דין. So beit din means simply, but here, what could על דעת בית דין? There's no beit din didn't make him swear. That only you do when you swear in a beit din. That that that the swearing would Even this way it was kasher, cuz he says, he said, I swear that that God will I won't tell. Says another Mishnah: קונם שאני נושא את פלונית כעורה, I make a נדר, yeah, that I will not marry this woman because she is ugly. והרי היא נאה, turns out that she's not not ugly, she's nice. שחורה, says this one she's black. והרי היא לבנה, turns out she's not, she's white. I swear I won't marry her because she's קצרה, because she's short. והרי היא ארוכה, she's long, she's tall. מותר בה, he's allowed to marry her. Okay. Then it says: לא מפני שהיא כעורה ונעשית נאה, this will not work if she was actually ugly at the time he made the neder, but she became nice. Not like this. Here's no Here it's exactly what he sees. So it's that doesn't work. Or or or נעשית נאה, שחורה ונעשית לבנה, she was black before, dark before, and she became white. Or קצרה ונעשית ארוכה, or she was short and she she grew and she became longer. אלא שהנדר טעות, it only works if there was a mistake. No, if it's a mistake. He thought she was, someone told him she's ugly, so I'm not I make a neder not marrying this woman because she's ugly. And they found out it's not true! So then the neder is no neder, because if there's a mistake, it's neder b'ta'ut. But according to this, had he said she's ugly and she davka was ugly, אלא מאי later she became nice, then he's still asur, because at the time she was davka ugly. How about if she was nice first and he made the neder, and it would work for later, and then she became ugly? Then he could now the marriage is No, that Everything depends on the time he made the neder, on the time he made the neder. Not You can't say for the future? Can't make a neder He could make, but he didn't. If he makes that also, yeah, if he says it. Then it says:

Rabbi Yishmael permits marriage after physical change

מעשה באחד, a story with this man, שנדר מבת אחותו הנאה, he made a נדר not to have, nice, is בת אחותו is niece, sister's daughter, should not have any הנאה from him, והכניסוה ל, why? Because obviously she was ugly, but they brought her into the בית רבי ישמעאל וייפוה, they took her to רבי ישמעאל's house, and they fixed her up, and she became nice. אמר ליה רבי ישמעאל, רבי ישמעאל said, בני, מזו נדרת? He showed him this girl, did you make a נדר from her? אמר ליה לאו. No, I thought she was ugly, this is not her. והתירה רבי ישמעאל, and Rabbi Yishmael allowed her, allowed him to marry her. But this is a kashya, the Gemara is going to ask: this is opposite of what we said before, because here it did change. At the time she was. She was, okay, we'll see, but the Gemara brings the story. באותה שעה בכה רבי ישמעאל, that moment רבי ישמעאל cried, ואמר, and he said, בנות ישראל נאות הן, all Jewish girls are nice, אלא שהעניות מנוולתן, and it's because they're poor makes them look ugly. וכשמת רבי ישמעאל, when רבי ישמעאל died, היו בנות ישראל נושאות קינה, so the Jewish women were crying, ואומרות, they say, בנות ישראל, על רבי ישמעאל בכינה. Cry for רבי ישמעאל, because רבי ישמעאל like helped us, רבי ישמעאל is on our side. וכן הוא אומר בשאול, like it says by שאול, בנות ישראל, אל שאול בכינה, they were crying for שאול, also, I guess he helped them. And then the Gemara asks the kashya: ma'aseh listor? The story that the Mishnah brings is a contradiction! First he says the din that if it changed it's not mutar, only if it was a mistake, and they tell a story where it changed and רבי ישמעאל was matir! So the Gemara says, chasori mechassra, yes, there's a few lines missing in the משנה, והכי קתני, this is what it should have said. After it says the whole din that's only if it was a mistake, not if it changed, it's supposed to enter these put in these words: רבי ישמעאל אומר, רבי ישמעאל argues! רבי ישמעאל says: אפילו כעורה ונעשית נאה, even if she was ugly, became nice. שחורה ונעשית לבנה, she was black and became white. קצרה ונעשית ארוכה, she was short and became tall. He also says he could marry her. And that's where we bring the ma'aseh. מעשה באחד שנדר מבת אחותו, the the the story, this guy who made a neder from his niece, והכניסוה לבית רבי ישמעאל וייפוה, they brought her to רבי ישמעאל, they made her nice, and רבי ישמעאל was matir. And tana, we learned in the baraita, what was it was ugly about her that רבי ישמעאל fixed? שן תותבת היתה לה. One tooth. She had a tooth that I guess was sticking out, the tooth was wasn't תותבת היה? Huh? False tooth, yeah. Not really, false tooth. Yeah, yeah, but you So, what's wrong if you can't tell? And you could tell, it looked different. Those days, I guess, it was made of gold or silver, and that made it look ugly. But it stuck out, so you could see that that ועשה לה רבי ישמעאל שן של זהב משלו, so it wasn't gold obviously, yeah, but obviously it was I don't know, made of black or something, and he gave from his gold, he gave her gold, and he gave the and he put her in a golden tooth. So, therefore, she looked nice, I guess. כששכב רבי ישמעאל, when רבי ישמעאל died, פתח עליה ההוא ספדנא, so this guy who made a eulogy said like this: הכי, he said: בנות ישראל, על ישראל בכינה המלבישכן. המלבישכם. המלבישכם. That he was מלביש them, he dressed them nicely and he made them look nice, so you have to feel bad that רבי ישמעאל died. He helped the Jewish women. There's a play on words with sheni, what's it? Yes. Sheni, doesn't it say שני, right? שני? הפסוק, הפסוק משמואל, בנות ישראל אל שאול בכינה המלבישכם שני. It's a play on words. Oh, you mean the next word. Yeah. Sheni goes on the... Sheni, yeah, doesn't, not the peshat peshat, but that was a remez. זאגט די גמרא weiter, ההוא דאמר לה לדביתה, someone said to his wife, קונם שאי את נהנית לי, I make a neder you should not be able to have any hanaah from me, עד שתטעימי תבשילך לרבי יהודה ולרבי שמעון, until you give רבי יהודה and רבי שמעון to taste from your food. And if you don't do that, you can't have any hanaah from me. So she took it to him, to them. רבי יהודה טעים, רבי יהודה tasted it, even though it was a בזיון, תנא make a meshugas that she has to taste your food. Nevertheless he did. אמר, he said, קל וחומר, מה לעשות שלום בין איש לאשתו, מה דהך in order to make peace

The Sotah Test and Erasing God’s Name

between husband and wife, אמרה תורה, the Torah said, שמי שנכתב בקדושה, my name which was written in holiness, ימחה על המים המאררים, בספק, should be erased on the water, the the bitter water, b'safek, it's a safek only. What's the case? It's of a sotah. A woman who hides, and we don't know if she's guilty or innocent. So you have to write the megillah, and you erase the megillah with Hashem's name, which is a big issur, into the water to drink. Like, in case she's innocent, this'll prove her innocence and she'll be able to go back to her husband. But we're not sure, maybe she's takeh guilty. So all on a safek, to maybe make shalom bayit, you're allowed to erase the aibershter's name. ואני על אחת כמה וכמה. If the aibershter gives up on his kavod and he allowed this to happen, I should give up on my kavod for sure that I should do this stupidity, you want me to taste, I'll taste it. רב שמעון לא טעים. Rav Shimon didn't want. Not only he didn't want, he actually cursed them. He said, אמר ימותו כל בני אלמנה, that the children of this almanah all die, ולא יזוז שמעון ממקומו. Will die. Yeah, but this is like a curse. לא מתו, ימותו. They will, they should die. Like a kelalah, a curse. כל בני אלמנה. And even basically, it seems like the words like it's actually maybe he said like this, even if they die, ולא יזוז שמעון ממקומו, I will not change my mind. I'm not going to do it. Okay. But basically there was a kelalah there. That's one of the reasons. So כי

Avoiding the Habit of Making Vows (Nedarim)

היכי דלא לתרגלו למינדר. He wanted to do it bedavka, they shouldn't get used to make nedarim. This whole is based on a neder. Why did she run to him to do it? Because this guy made a neder. He says they shouldn't start become used to, habit of making nedarim. What was his purpose, what did they what did they want to get out of that? Who, Rav Shimon? No, who sent her, the husband who sent the wife. Yeah, is it he wanted to know if the... He wanted to show If it's tasty, he says it's not tasty. So let him taste it if it's tasty or not. You know what? This sounds could be that he claim he claim, no, it doesn't say here, he claimed that it was no good, doesn't taste good. She said it tastes good, so he said, you know what, go give it to them, let them taste it. Probably, yeah, this makes this makes sense. Let them make the let if they say it tastes good, that is. Yeah. And it's a stupid thing, but he gave up. Okay, we'll stop here. זה שאמר

Going to Rava and the Wild Animal Story

לה ללכת לירוק לירוק באף... היא הייתה, הייתה לומדת אצל רבא? אמר לה איפה היית, אצל רבא? לכי תירקי בפניו. אז הוא גם אמר... stories, eating a wild animal. And purpose eating it, you wanted to become wild before the war. It was a freed, and you wanted the wild nature Energy. Energy. Okay. When the pasuk says אתם ניצבים היום כולכם Yeah. How does all the people No, when it says in a bad way. When it says by Korach it says Not every time it says כולכם, it doesn't mean

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