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EIN YAAKOV

Gittin 59a

What If Nadav and Avihu Had Lived?

Part of Ein Yaakov · 8:12

A speculative aggada exploring what might have happened had Nadav and Avihu survived, alongside reflections on Shmuel, Shlomo, and Ezra's leadership.

Audio Transcript
Opening Remarks and Introductory Learning

let's learn a little bit. Be careful and you'll be eating too late. Okay, ל״ה, let's learn a few minutes. אמר אבא בריה דרבא, אבא, the son of Rava said, ואיתימא, some say it was רב הילל בריה דרב ואלס, רב הילל, the son of Rav Vals, said like this: מימות משה ועד רבי לא מצינו תורה וגדולה במקום אחד. From Moshe Rabbeinu until Rabbi, we don't find that there should be one person should be the leader of the Yidden in Torah and also to be the in in in position of of money and things like that, you know, power, should be the should be one person. See, there were times a lot, but to have a generation that should be the same one person, he should be the top in both, we don't find. Moshe Rabbeinu was like that, and Rabbi was like that. פרעגט די גמרא, ולא? No? והא הוה יהושע. Well, you had Yehoshua. After Moshe Rabbeinu passed away, Yehoshua? So the Gemara says הוה אלעזר. He wasn't in greatness, he wasn't the greatest because there were someone equal to him. In his lifetime, there was Elazar. Okay. Fregt di Gemara, but then... If

Hypothetical Survival of Nadav and Avihu

Nadav vaAvihu wouldn't have died, neither one of them would be anything. Who? Okay. Nadav vaAvihu. But lefoal, neither one of them got a special shiur. Only only Aharon, Nadav vaAvihu got a special shiur. Okay. But lefoal, it was Elazar. Fregt di Gemara, but then after Yehoshua died, הוה אלעזר. So then you had Elazar, he was the top in both. So the Gemara says, no, in his lifetime, הוה פינחס, there was Pinchas. פרעגט די גמרא, והוה פינחס, after Elazar died, there was Pinchas. So the Gemara says, הוה זקנים, there were other zekenim which were just just great as him. Fregt di Gemara, but later, הוה שאול. Shaul was the top, he was the king, and he was also the greatest in in in leadership, in Torah. So the Gemara says, no, in his lifetime, הוה שמואל. I don't understand the kashya. How do you say Shaul was the greatest in Torah? Meheicha teitei? The Gemara says he was the biggest... Meheicha teitei Shaul should be that way? Sure, sure. בן שנה שאול במלכו. So the Gemara says he was a year old? He was such a tzadik, such greatness that he was the greatest person. It says משכמו ומעלה גבוה מכל העם. Means peshat he was so tall that everybody reached his shoulder, but sefarim say, what does that mean? That in gedlut, in learning, and in tzidkut he was head and shoulder above everybody. But whatever, Shmuel. פרעגט די Gemara, ונח נפשיה, but

Samuel’s Death and Saul’s Solo Leadership

Shmuel died before Shaul. Mimela, there was a time when Shaul was alone without Shmuel, and he was the top. No. The Gemara answers the teirutz, כוליה שני קאמרינן. We're not speaking that there was a chance, but all the life, the whole lifetime, all the years of his greatness, he was one. Here, most of the years of his greatness he wasn't the only one, cause Shmuel. So there was a year and a half later or whatever amount of time there was after, but that's not all his life. We're talking about somebody that all his life he was that. פרעגט די Gemara, והוה דוד? David, the Gemara says no, הוה עירא היאירי. He had this Ira Hayairi. פרעגט די Gemara, ונח נפשיה, he died before David? The same teirutz, כוליה שני קאמרינן, we're talking about all the years. Ira Hayairi, yeah. Rashi says גדול בתורה היה. The Gemara says in Moed Katan that he used to teach the chachamim, he was a teacher of all teachers. David, Shaul... Ira Hayairi... Shaul? David. Yeah, but David didn't become the leader until after. Yeah, but he was still a Torah scholar. No, we're talking about the greatest, you know, the greatest leader, the greatest of the generation. פרעגט די Gemara, והוה שלמה?

Solomon’s Scholarly Greatness Examined

Shlomo? Talmid chacham. No, both, Torah and גדולה. פרעגט די Gemara, שלמה, so the Gemara says, הוה שמעי בן גרא. Shimi ben Gera was just as great. והא קטליה, he killed him. So there was a time that David was Shlomo was left without Shimi ben Gera. The Gemara says, כוליה שני קאמרינן, the same thing. But it but still lefoal, not all the years of Shlomo's greatness. Wait a minute. Meheicha teisi that Shimi ben Gera was was was was gadol in power? He was never gadol in power. Doesn't mean power, means riches mainly. Riches and being... I never heard that he was... No, but lefoal, no, afilu if he wasn't rich in power, lefoal mamash in גדלות he wasn't the greatest. No, he wasn't the only great one. We're talking about a person who's he is the only great one in Torah, the greatest in Torah, and the same time with גדולה. Here there was somebody else as great as him in Torah. פרעגט די Gemara, והוה חזקיה? Chizkiyahu was the greatest in both alone? No, הוה שבנא. There was Shevna. פרעגט די גמרא, והא איקטול? He was killed, he was killed with סנחריב. כוליה שני קאמרינן, the same thing. We mean all the years of Chizkiyahu. From when he became the greatest in Torah, that time he was the only one. פרעגט די Gemara, והוה עזרא?

Ezra’s Leadership and Shevna’s Treachery

That's such a funny thing. Shevna was a traitor. But he was the greatest in Torah, he was ראש הסנהדרין. Shevna was the head of Sanhedrin. And he, takeh, was a traitor, that he didn't listen to the navi, but lefoal he was the top guy. פרעגט די Gemara, והוה עזרא? The Gemara says, הוה נחמיה בן חכליה. They say, by Ezra he had somebody equal to Ezra, so he wasn't the only great one in Torah. אמר רב אחא בריה דרבא, רב אחא the son of רבא said, אף אני אומר, I will also add. We said before it was משה רבינו and Rabbi, and then he says, מימות רבי from רבי עד רב אשי לא מצינו תורה וגדולה במקום אחד. From Rabbi to Rav Ashi we don't find. It's interesting: Rabbi was the end of the Mishnayot, and Rav Ashi end of the Gemara. Rabbi was made the Mishnayot, and that was חתימת המשנה, the end of the Mishnah, no more Mishnah, and then Rav Ashi was the end of Gemara. From him, that's not, no more, no more Gemara, you can't add anything. So here you see the same two. פֿרעגט די גמרא, ולא היא? There was nobody else? והא הוה הונא בר נתן. You had Huna bar Natan, he's just as great? Said the Gemara, you're right, but שאני הונא בר נתן, הונא בר נתן doesn't count, דמיכף הוה כייף ליה לרב אשי. As much as he was great like him, he was like batel to Rav Ashi. So he was like under the jurisdiction of Rav Ashi, so mimela he's not the top. Mimela you can't count him, so Rav Ashi was He was a צדיק נסתר, huh? No, people knew his greatness, but he himself was batel, whatever Rav Ashi said went by him. He wasn't like an equal to him. Just for one more this piece here. It says a פסוק, ויאמר לאשר על המלחה, מלתחה. It says that in ביהוא, anyway it says, it's not noge'a the whole thing there, the Gemara just wants to know, מאי מלתחה? What's what's מלתחה? How do they, do they have the נקודות here? Not up to there. Oh, let's see how the נקודות are here. המלחה, not a מלתחה, המלתחה. What does that mean? אמר רב אבא בר יעקב אמר רב יוחנן, דבר הנמול ונמתח. So the way Rashi explains, when they used to make בגדי פשתן, garments of of flax, they would take the threads and stretch it, and first they would roll it around their finger, and then they would stretch it, and that's what was something that they used to do for avodah zarah. So that's the, so you see, he was telling him, Yehu who did avodah zarah, he said to the ones that are were the the heads of this המלתחה, and what does this מלתחה, this דבר הנמול ונמתח, that's all it is. Okay, let's stop here. Okay. Ah, המלתחה. Well, he told him he's going to kill him, but what did he tell him? Yeah. But how did he refer to it with this avodah zarah with this thing? So funny, he started out killing all the avodah zarah and then he himself had an avodah zarah. We can't imagine that ta'avah of avodah zarah that was in those days. Gemara tells the story He himself wiped out the people Yeah, but the yetzer hara got him. The Gemara says, Abaye, Abaye it was, once said to his talmidim, 'Tomorrow we're going to talk about our friend Menashe.' Menashe. Menashe was a baby in avodah zarah. So Menashe came to him in a dream, 'You call me your friend? Who are you anyway? We learned and we were such great talmidei chachamim.' He asked Abaye a sheilah, 'Do you know the halachah?' and he didn't know. He says, 'You see what you're talking about?' So he asked him, 'If you're so great, how did you do avodah zarah?' So he said, 'I'm telling you, if you'd be in our time, you'd run to worship. You would hold on to the the the the the the garment of a person of avodah zarah, holding, schlepping to worship avodah zarah, that's how big the ta'avah was.' We don't know about it because the Anshei Knesset HaGedolah killed the yetzer hara of avodah zarah. So we don't have the ta'avah.

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