before we start the Mishnah, I thought it would be worthwhile to just review some of the pesukim, oh, nice, of which the the Mishnah and the Gemara is based on. But you think you should know. And here is the pasuk in פרשת כי תצא, פרק כ״ב פסוק כ״ח, כי ימצא איש נערה בתולה אשר לא ארסה ותפשה ושכב עמה ונמצאו. Now I'll translate that for you, I'll give you an ArtScroll translation. If a man will find a virgin maiden who is not betrothed and takes hold of her and lies with her and they are discovered. Right. Here it is, 22:28. In other words, he violates her. Now the important point here, or there are many important points, but one of the important points here is that is that she's not married. As the pasuk said, she was not betrothed. Betrothed, לא ארסה. is not betrothed? Betrothed. Another noteworthy point is that it was forceful. It was תפשה, he grabbed her. and takes hold of her and lies with her ונמצאו. Yes, ונמצאו. They are caught. There are some other important another a few important points here is that she's a נערה, נערה is a specific time frame, so when she's 12 to 12 and a half. And obviously בתולה, that she's a virgin. So if a virgin who's not married, who's age 12 to 12 and a half is violated, then what do we do to this איש? ונתן האיש השוכב עמה The man who the man who would should give? לאבי הנערה the man who was שוכב with her, the man who violated her gives to the father of the girl חמשים כסף. 50 silver silver coins, right? You got it, 50 silver coins. Additionally, there's a mitzvah, ולו תהיה לאשה And she shall be his wife. She shall be his wife, תחת אשר ענה לא יוכל שלחה כל ימיו. violated her and he could not divorce her all his life. לא יוכל שלחה, what does that mean? He's not allowed to divorce her. שלחה, send her. Send her away. Shiluach Haken, you know. And according and she also has to pay he has to pay pain, humiliation, humiliation, and depreciation. Hey. Yeah. So that is the parashah of אונס. Are you good with that? Why not? What about the מפתה? So the מפתה is not really our topic right now. We'll get back to that. The the seducer. Right. Similar halachot for the most part. So this penalty which is described in the pasuk that I just read of חמשים כסף is referred to as a kenas. Yeah, it's kenas. It's a kenas, kenas we'll translate as a penalty or a fine. By

definition though, kenas is different than mamon. Excuse me, mamon? What's that? Mamon, you said? Different than what we refer to as mamon. Meaning to say, for example, if someone damages someone else $100 worth of damage, that obligation is what we call mamon. The $100 that I owe you is because of the $100 loss. It's compensation of a certain loss. Uh-huh. Whereas a kenas, a fine, generally implies that it's not compensating a specific monetary loss. For example, if you litter, and it's a $500 fine, you didn't cause anybody a $500 loss, you got to pay a $500 kenas. It's usually meant as a deterrent. So here also, the actual loss, like you mentioned before, there are other ways we calculate damages that he inflicted on But in addition to all that, there's this halachah of kenas, the penalty, 50 שקל כסף. Is there a machloket about that, that that's if it's mamon or not mamon? Not that I'm aware of. There's a point that it could be it turns into mamon once there's what we call a העמדה בדין. העמדה בדין, that the din wants to, Beit Din? Right, that could be that that's, yeah, that now he owes it. It's possible, yeah. At that point, it could be takes on a different status. But in any event, our

Mishnah now goes on to list אלו נערות, so these are the נערות, the virgins, שיש להן קנס, which are entitled to this kenas upon being violated. The Mishnah now lists number one, הבא על הממזרת, one who violates a ממזרת, we know what that is. Offspring from two not married. Correct. ועל הנתינה, or on a נתינה, Gibeonites. What is a נתינה, at night? Yeah, well, I don't know, Gibeonites, yeah, Canaanite people that lived in the land of Canaan at the time of Joshua's conquest, as related in Joshua 9:3-27. When they spied the Israelites' conquest, having already destroyed Jericho and Ai, and were bidden to destroy all Canaanite peoples, the Gibeonites feared for for, posed as travelers from a distant land, approach Joshua and offered to serve Israel. They basically they didn't want to they were just lo lishmah. They wanted to convert, but they didn't really want to, just to protect themselves, that in a nutshell, you know. So... Well, they're really actually might be the כותים according to some opinions. Oh, yeah. But you're right. I mean, they It seems like they were they were real It was soon in there, no? Yeah. It seems like they were real converts, but they tricked Right, they were real, I mean, they they tricked Yehoshua they circumcised themselves, but they convert they didn't want they were afraid of Klal Yisrael conquest. I I just wonder, it doesn't say in here, but how it says the ruse was discovered. I mean, like what did they do that went Yeah, but anyway, that's another story. Oh, no, I think they portrayed themselves as some distant... Oh, they posed as travelers, that's right. They posed from a distant land, yeah. As opposed to the Canaanites. Ah, okay. Oh, yes, they live there in Canaan, well. That was a trick. That was a big lie, yeah. Right. They made them woodcutters and water drawers. It's interesting how we say that in Parashat Nitzavim, you know? Woodcutters and water drawers. Sure, they're in there. All standing here together, all ten all ten דרגות. The start of that, including them, too. Those are pretty low. Woodchoppers, huh? Woodcutters, that could be different. Now you're getting now you're getting nervous, huh? Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The dachas in Russian though. Carpentry and cabinetmakers. Yeah, that's what I think. It's a little different. Okay, okay. So you don't go out there and cut the trees down, right? Okay, I hear you. Okay, so those are the נתינים. And then we

have על הכותית, a woman from it's considered a כותית, which Rashi explains were also a group of people that according to Rashi here, which is really a מחלוקת תנאים, they converted, but Rashi seems to side with the opinion of Rabbi Meir, that their conversion was out of fear of the lions, אריות. גירי אריות, they were converts of lions, literally, meaning to say that they were scared that Hashem was upset with them and they were going to be wiped out. Therefore, they converted, but they l'maaseh were not they still kept to their pagan beliefs and avodah zarah, and they were not real converts. They were still halachit considered like gentiles. So, the fact that he must pay a fine with these, that's that's a real chidush, isn't it already, in the Mishnah? So, l'chorah that is a chidush that even these what we call פסולות, yeah, still have a kenas. Now, why that's a chidush, I could suggest possibly Somewhere they're Jewish. what is because included in the parashah we just saw recently in the in the pesukim was not only is there a kenas, but also he has a mitzvah to marry her. He can't marry them, so so that obligation he's exempt, so maybe he's also exempt from the kenas. Right? And that the Mishnah is telling us, no, he's got to pay the קנס. Doesn't have to marry, but at least the קנס, he'll do something. Just a thought. I mean if if if if it was, yeah okay. If if, wait, we're talking about rape here, so if he raped like if he raped a non-Jew, would he would he be liable anything? I don't know, it's another subject. A kind of other subject. Alright. Because here, what's her name, this this law is based on the fact that she's as a a possible Well, I don't know. You're asking good. You're asking good. All I'm try All I'm trying to let you get the question. Well no, okay. So if she's not a Yid, you'd think that maybe the law doesn't apply and he doesn't have to pay. The Mishnah says it does apply. Ah, so that's the question. According to Rashi, at least. No, so okay, so Rashi says Rashi says Rashi says that they weren't a real גיורת. Not a real גיורת, so that's As far as we're concerned, she's a גויה. Right, that's where this What's going on here? Yeah. Okay. So let's put that on hold, we'll get to that after. So are they or are they not? So then so then you would have to understand how Rashi would even Yeah, so Tosafot asks that kashya on Rashi. Okay. And we'll get to that, hopefully. I just wanted you to ask it, so. Okay, so the Mishnah continues: הבא על הגיורת ועל השבויה ועל השפחה שנפדו ושנתגיירו ושנשתחררו פחותות מבת שלש שנים ויום אחד. So these category, this category of women we find grouped together, which is a convert or a women woman taken into captivity or a שפחה. Now what they all three What What What is the commonality between all these three women? What's the commonality? is that they are considered halachically to be already, not or to to not be virgins. A שפחה could be abused. A גויה is also בחזקת בעולה, I believe. And So שפחה is בחזקת בעולה, שבויה also They would say also Huh? חשש. חשש, it's only a חשש. All these women, from a halachic standpoint, are considered בחזקת בעולה. Why a convert? Because she lives with the גוים, I don't know. Huh? She lives with the גוים, she's a גויה. However, if their conversion of this גויה or the freedom of this slave or the release of this captive was prior to age three, then we say even if she was violated at that young age, but her בתולים, her virginity is not affected. Okay? Before that age. Right, meaning virginity is only affected if it if if she was violated after age three and onward. And we know because it grows back, maybe? Yeah. Okay. Virginity grows back? The The interesting There was a question I remember we ever answered, why it changes the order. Why it changes the order from convert, captive, and then שפחה, then it says who were ransomed, converted, and emancipated. It changes the first two. Whatever. Right. Can't answer everything. Okay, so all these women that they converted or were freed or released before age three, they also will be entitled to the קנס because they are considered a בתולה. Now the

Mishnah gets into a different שאלה here with regard to קנס, and that is what about הבא על אחותו? So one who is מאנס his sister, ועל אחות אביו, he's מאנס his aunt, ועל אחות אמו, or his aunt from his mother's side. So the first So it's still כרת? All these are חייבי כריתות. חייבי כריתות. ועל אחות אשתו, or his brother's wife, wife's sister, which is also an איסור כרת, ועל אשת אחיו, brother's wife, ועל אשת אחי אביו, uncle's wife, ועל הנדה, or a נדה. Before Matan Torah, one of these was okay, right? Wife's sister, something, I forgot which one. Anyway. I think all of them were okay before Matan Torah. Yeah? I don't know, there's no Torah that נדה's אסור. No, but we know Yaakov married sisters, right? Yeah, and that would And they say, and that's a שאלה. That's a big שאלה. How How could he do it, they kept the whole Torah, that sort of Yeah, anyway, listen, that's not So, anyway, to all these women יש להם קנס, אף על פי שהן שהן בכרת, והיא כרת, even though they are punishable with כרת, אין בהן מיתת בית דין, there is no מיתת בית דין.

Since you learned this already once before, you want to explain to me what the Mishnah says? Excuse me, I want to explain what? Since you learned this already, you want to explain this? No, because, I mean, I didn't, I learned it, I learned the girsa. Because it really needs a הקדמה. Yeah, even though There's a concept called קם ליה בדרבה מיניה, are you familiar with that one? Yeah, I remember that. Remember that? Yeah, I remembered that. What does it mean again? I remember that, I went through a few times. Got to review, review, review. It's talked about here. So, it's talked about here. Oh, over here? Dual penalty. Oh, yeah, yeah, the worse penalty, that's right. If you owe money and you're חייב מיתה, you don't have to pay, because they're going to kill you anyway. Right, isn't it something like, you know, you Well, even if they don't kill you, we've got you shoot an arrow through the guy's clothes and then you play, you're going to kill somebody. It's famous, right, it's Bava Kamma, right? What's over here? דף ע''א, דף ע''א, עמוד א' I think. קם ליה בדרבה מיניה, is penalized in the greater one. That's it. Obligated by laws of heaven, so here we have... Why, why here would there even be a question of בהן מיתת בית דין? There's something I'm missing. Why would there even be a question that there he should, there's מיתת בית דין? He didn't kill anybody. What do you mean? עריות is not... is מיתת בית דין? No, it's כרת. נדה is מיתת בית דין? What here is would there be the possibility... The Mishnah says אף על פי שהן בכרת, אין בהן מיתת בית דין. There is no מיתת בית דין. Oh, oh. Oh, fine, fine, okay. So, what's the question? So, what's the Mishnah saying? What does that... even though they got כרת, there's no מיתת בית דין, therefore what? As if they don't get fined? Right, they don't get fined. It's about, meaning like this, they don't get fined because If there would have been... they get כרת, they don't get fined. But כרת is מיתה is בית דין is sorry, בית דין דשמיא, I mean, so down here you think that there should also be something. But if it's מיתת בית דין is... It really goes if there is a פסק down here, then they follow it up there. Right. So, if there So that's what the whole... Like you said, קם ליה בדרבה מיניה. What's that? קם ליה בדרבה מיניה, בדרבה מיניה. The smaller requirement, if you will, is satisfied by Requirement's not really the right word, but Punishment rather, monetary obligation, obligated by laws of heaven. Yeah. What is it, what punishment does this guy get if he killed a person? What punishment does a guy get if he killed someone? מיתה. There you go. Which type of מיתה? Let me see. So, what's going on? What's going on is like this. If there would have been a מיתת בית דין for this particular violation, then there would be no kenas. Then there would be no kenas, for sure. Because of the concept of קם ליה בדרבה מיניה. But what the Mishnah is saying is, these instances where it was a sister, it was an aunt, it was a niddah, wife's sister, all the cases listed, there is no מיתת בית דין. Yeah. There's only a חיוב כרת, and חיוב כרת does not come along with the קם ליה בדרבה מיניה package. Therefore, he has to pay the kenas. In other words, from heaven doesn't take away your obligations down here. Correct, would you say that? That's the implication. Good? All righty. And now that we got through the Mishnah... Now that we got through the Mishnah, let's see. Wow, I got a lot to read, man. I should have come here about 10-15 minutes earlier, but the kids wouldn't get to sleep. Ai ai ai. Even your kids? Even my kids. He wants he wants the big picture dictionary now. At 8:00, it's a big picture day. I said, \"You can't be reading big picture in your bed. You're going to like force it to read a little Jewish book.\" \"No, I want it.\" He got upset, a whole big... Anyway, \"So read it tomorrow.\" \"It's 7:00, I'd let you read it.\" \"Well, first you told me that it was too big, now you're telling me what time?\" Ai ai ai. Yeah. All right, listen, kids are kids, right? Yeah, brother. Takes away time. What are we doing? So,

we're going to take a look at, look at the Rashi, כותית, okay? Okay. Then we're going to take a look at Tosafot. We're not going to go through the whole Tosafot, but we'll pull out some points here. Okay. So, Rashi כותית, when we were discussing one of the women that I'll find it, I'll find it. We're in it. כותית, I got it. So, Rashi says, קסבר גירי אריות הן. We are of the opinion that they are converts that were inspired to convert because of the threat of אריות. Lions. Lions, right. וישנן בלאו דלא תתחתן בם. דלא תתחתן בם. And therefore are included in the Torah prohibition of not making חתונה with them. Not marrying them. Not marrying them. What's this word that looks like it has four תותs in it? It's not. There's a חת in there. There's a חת, that's a חת, yeah, okay. So, Tosafot now if you roll down the page to כותית. Got it. So, it quotes Rashi, פירש בקונטרס דקסבר כותים גירי אריות הן. גירי אריות הן. And they're included, וישנם בלאו דלא תתחתן דלא תתחתן They are included in the לאו of not marrying into marrying marrying into them or allowing them to marry into you. Okay, so now we're going to skip a little bit. Okay, to To Line starts with We're going to look at we're going to skip to דלא כותית קנס, תוספות כותית. It's a big Rashi. It's a big Tosafot. גמרא, בלאו הני סגי דבסימן פלוני וגרי גירי ועוד דקתני ואיסורו איסור שוה בדל משקינה דשוה בישראל קא פשיט תוספות פטר תוספות פטר Let's see, we're going to skip to the end of that line, מה שפירש בקונטרס, מה שפירש דקסבר כותים גירי אריות הן. Yeah. Yeah. So, ל״נ, לא נראה לרבינו יצחק. Rabbeinu Yitzchak is not happy with that. Who's Rabbeinu Yitzchak? Is that the famous Rabbeinu Yitzchak ben, or Rabbeinu Meir... I think that's Ribam, actually. Ribam. Okay, now this was what your question, Avner, okay? Rivam, almost sounds like Avner, right? Who's Rivam? Rivam, Avner. Not really, huh? That's a stretch. דאם כן עבודת כוכבים היא. עבודת כוכבים היא. She's a gentile. She's a goy. ועבודת כוכבים אין לה קנס. Yeah, she can't... Doesn't get a kenas. Doesn't get a kenas. כי דפרך בפרק קמא, as the Gemara asks As the Gemara asks, Bava Kamma. No, פרק קמא, in the first פרק, which we learned in דף י״א. י״א, י״א. The Gemara says a לשון, יהבינן לה קנס, will we actually give her קנס ואזלא ואכלה בנכריותא? ואזלא ואכלה בנכריותא That she'll go and eat it as a goy, meaning to say benefit from the kenas when she's a goy. So, what is Tosafot referring to? So, let's flip back a few pages to the Gemara on דף י״א עמוד א׳.

Tosafot brings a re'ayah that a goy doesn't get kenas. Tosafot brings a re'ayah to where you're speaking? י״א, י״א, 11A. י״א that the that the goy doesn't get a kenas, right. So, where does it say a goy doesn't get a kenas? It says it in Tosafot, where? No, it says in the Gemara. We're going to start with In the Gemara. We're going to start with מותיב רבא. מותיב רבא? Rava, toward the bottom, two-thirds down the page. Okay. מותיב רבא, yeah. אלו נערות. Now this question, if I'm not mistaken, is with regard to one who wants to reject the conversion that was put on them by their by their parents or by, you know, it's a beit din. And מותיב רבא, רבא brings a Mishnah, and he says אלו נערות שיש להן קנס. These are the נערות that have kenas. Sound familiar? We just learned this Mishnah a few minutes ago. הבא על הממזרת והבא על הנתינה והבא על הכותית והבא על הגיורת והבא על השבויה והבא על השפחה שנפדו ושנתגיירו ושנשתחררו פחותות מבנות שלש שנים ויום אחד. Now

all these women are entitled to kenas. And how do you have a girl that became a גיורת under age three? פחותות מבת שלש שנים, it had to be through the beit din, correct? Yeah, I guess so. Right, that's what we learned about the sugya of גר קטן, remember that? The minor ger. Yeah, but what if but because the mother brought them, so the so the Right, we had to we had to be מזכה the gerut through beit din. And ואי אמרת הגדילו יכולין למחות, now what the Gemara is asking is that the Gemara earlier said that if beit din accepts gerut for a child, for a minor, then when they mature, they turn into a גדול, they're allowed to be מוחה. They can They have to kind of reestablish their conversion. Well, according to some they either have to reestablish or they have to not reject. Not reject. It seems like they certainly have the ability to reject it if they will. Now ואי אמרת דהגדילו יכולין למחות, so the Gemara asks, יהבינן לה קנס? Why are you going to give this girl a kenas? Telling me he violated her and she converted under age three, meaning to say through the beit din, but maybe when she becomes an adult, she'll reject it. What do you mean, who is it who are we giving the kenas to? The guy that did the deed, not her? What's going on, am I losing it, or what's the deal? Huh? Who's the guy that did the deed? Well, who we

talked about here was, one violates, who's the who gets the kenas? So the pasuk we just read, if I'm not mistaken, said it goes to the father. Who gets the kenas is the father, right. Why are we talking Yeah, we pay her a fine. Oh, oh, it's a Wait, I'm sorry. Yeah, well, you pay her or her father. Pay her or her father. So Let's assume it's going to her for a second. Let's leave the father out of it for a minute, okay? Okay. The Gemara says She's an adult. Yeah, ואי אמרת דהגדילו יכולין למחות יהבינן לה קנס, you're going to give her a קנס דאזלא דאכלה בגיותא? Right. In order that she should eat, so to speak, or benefit from the kenas when she's a goy? Interesting. Interesting, cuz we're not sure We're not sure. In other words, we're we're giving her kenas when she's young. Okay. Then כי גדלה? No, we give it to her when she's an adult. Right, give it to her when she's an adult. Wait until she's 18, or, you know, until she has a driver's driver's license. Yeah, לכי גדלה נמי מצי מחיא ויהבה לה. Maybe when she She'll also reject the gerut? No, longer, nice. Well, it says no, once once you become a גדול and you don't reject it, then you lose your opportunity. I was going to ask, why wasn't he also You see? Yes, sir. And then, you can only go so far to be responsible for what she's going to do. You've got to get her get her money, and, you know, what are you going to do? That's not Right, so what we see from here though is that let's just assume for a moment she really was a goy, the Gemara seems to understand that peshita, you don't give her kenas because kenas doesn't It's not Go for a, doesn't go to a goy. Right, don't give a kenas. So that's Now, I'm not sure. I thought I thought the pasuk said earlier that it goes to the father, so I'm just a little bit unsure of that. Right. Did they did they mention that over there? You know, I think it says that, and right here, the pasuk says the man shall give her give the father, right? Says לאבי, עמה לאבי, שכב עמה לאבי, דהא חמשים כסף. Right, so what, did they bring that up? What's going on here, on דף י\"א ע\"א? Did they mention anything about that in the footnotes? It's a good kushya, because what does have Who cares about her? It's really about the father, right? Right, so if he gets it then there's no questions, right? Right. But Hear this. Where is it? Here it is. גדלה ועמדה לה, right? Yeah. So why doesn't he say something about that? Nobody seems to bring it up at all. Why not? Doesn't say anything about it, but why why wouldn't we just say that it's implied? Because if it's a ketanah, whatever, that that the father would get it. Means her, it's her kenas. But no, why do we have to say we give it to her when she becomes a na'arah? It's a question. Good question, isn't it? Seems so, because here, why? I'll try to look into that. So so interesting nobody asks it, so nothing is said about it. But there must be such a must be some simple answer for some reason. It says Oh. Oh, because she's a גיורת and she doesn't have a father, maybe that's it. Oh, okay, that's a גיורת, right? It's talking about a גיורת now. Are we talking about a גיורת? How could she say that when when none of them have a related father? Oh, are we just I told you we're talking about all three. All three of them have the same No, שבויה not. שבויה not? Why a captive not? So the whole the cool The Gemara's question though is from from גיורת. Oh, there we go. So good kashya and good teirutz. Right. Okay. Okay. So here you have a situation, but it's still a little bit of a chidush. And you have a situation where you don't have a father of of a na'arah, and it'll go to her anyway. Yeah, but it's it's an interesting situation. I mean, here she's a ketanah, and yet she doesn't have a father. She's four years old and she doesn't have a father because she converted. And the other troubling part of this Gemara, this is a sure Gemara, I mean, the other Tosafos also brings up the fact that if she's of the age to get kenas, then he violated her when she was already 12. 12 is already considered a gedolah. So although yes, she converted when she was, let's just say, two, but when did he violate her? He violated her when she's a gedolah, so she must have been between 12 and 12 and a half. Right. So, the Gemara's a little strange. The

Gemara asks: Right. אי אמרת Which was it so? It's depending on when she was a na'arah or when she was a ketanah. Well, that's what the Gemara asks. Well, the Gemara asks that if she's able to reject the גרות, then are you going to give her kenas? What if she would she'd go live as a goy? The Gemara answers, well, לכי גדלה, you only give it to her when she's a gedolah. Tosafos asks: What do you mean? The the whole case is talking about when she's a gedolah. Because she's not getting kenas unless she's a נערה. Not getting קנס. Wait a second, how like how גדולה is she? She's a נערה. כיוון שהיא בת קנס, if she's בת קנס, then she's anyways entitled to it. That's considered what? She's entitled to it? In order for her to get קנס, she has to be a נערה. Right. So what's the Gemara saying? Oh, you know what? We'll give it to her when she's a גדולה. But she is a גדולה, the whole story is she was a גדולה. But a נערה is not a גדולה. Yeah, a נערה is a גדולה. Or a נערה is a גדולה. When they say גדולה, it means It's an in-between stage. Well, it is an in-between stage, but she's a גדולה with regard to, let's say, her חיוב מצוות. חיוב מצוות. Past מצוות. Yeah, 12 years old. 12 to 12 and a half. Right. Okay, but either way, without getting into all the technicalities of the Gemara there, Okay. which we hopefully did back then, Okay. you could find it on a file on a file somewhere. Yeah. I have it somewhere back Somewhere back there, yeah. In any event, what relates to our Gemara, is the Gemara says clearly that if she's a goy, she will not be entitled to קנס. We'll give her קנס in order for her to go spend the money, the penalty money as a goy? We won't do such a thing. Good Jewish money. Now, it might be even if it's from a rapist. Good Jewish money, right? Still worked for it. Even if it's from a rapist, good Jewish money, anyway. Now the question is, is it a halacha that a goy doesn't get קנס? Or is there still a little bit of wiggle room here? We're saying a sevara, what is the sevara, maybe I looked ahead at something, so I cheated. You cheated, huh? Bava Kama, right? Rabbi Meir? Kiddushin. Oh. Okay. So, there's a Rosh in Kiddushin. Rosh in Kiddushin. And he Yeah. You have it there? They talk about it? No. I didn't see that, but I just saw that because in How does Tosafot explain in Bava Kama that in the Mishnah considering we assume to be genuine converts? If there would be a קנס, because Rabbi Meir holds that. Anyway. That doesn't say in this. Okay. Kiddushin. Yeah. Here. So the Rosh I don't know if this is it. Here we go. Yeah. ומכל מקום, אם אפשר טוב עשית ביד בית דין, ולא יהבינן ליה דאזיל ואכיל בעמי, he's talking about a מומר. A מומר is someone who does not purposely does not keep the Torah. Right? So לדעתך לדעתך. So he says, purposes. So he says The

Rosh wants to apply a sevara that would we give him ירושה inheritance, even though מדאורייתא uh just like his father died Yeah. He's entitled to it, but why why would we want to have him have money to go live like a גוי? Good point. And he And he references our sugya. כי דאמרינן גבי קנס דכתובות similar to what we say with regard to קנס in כתובות. כתובות, right. So, by the correlation between between the קנס If you agree, he says no. and the uh and the קנס and the ירושה, it seems to indicate that by ירושה, a son really מן התורה is entitled to inherit his father. No matter what. Now, Chazal comes with the sevara that, well, we're not going to give it to him to go and be live as a גוי. Right. Now, if we were to somehow come to the conclusion that he would do teshuva, or whatever it was, then we would let him have it, right? Right, right. So The money might help. So if right. So if if this woman would not Alright, going back to the קנס, let's just say she lives the lifestyle of a Jew. Uh-huh. But she might go off. If you don't give her the קנס, she might rebel. I don't know about that, but even if besides for that, well, if she's living as a as a Jew, and she's not doing עבודה זרה, then it could be we don't we will not apply this sevara of of גוי. So that may be a possible answer for Rashi. If Tosafos is asking Rashi that you don't give money to a גוי, and then you could say, well, it depends. A גוי who is serving עבודה זרה, then yeah, we don't want to give them money they should go eat it chazir. But if she if they converted, even if their conversion was questionable, but if they're living the lifestyle of a Jew and they're not serving idols, even though from a halacha standpoint they may not be Jewish, but nevertheless, it could be that they will still be entitled to the קנס. Yeah, but what about the fact that she's a she's a נערה, she's not a she's not a גדולה yet, or she's a קטנה, the way it says here? What is she here, a נערה? It doesn't say. Under the age of Whatever. She's under three! She was under three when she was converted, not when she was violated. When she converted, okay. So, but so this could be between the ages of three and 12. Could be. Well, tomorrow's. This Gemara in י״א. But anyway You said it's talking about a נערה. No, there's no קנס unless she's a נערה. Huh? There's no קנס unless she's a נערה. Oh, there's no קנס. There's no קנס between ages... There's

only קנס at twelve, twelve and a half. Ah. So it's a נערה, גדול or not? Yes. So why, I'm sorry for my sorry for my confession. Let's see. Let's trace back. I mean if she's a גדול, then what's this Gemara? What does Tosafot say there? Okay. So that's what you said. We don't have to get in, it's the technicalities of the Gemara, we don't have to get in. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yishar koach. All right, then. Maybe I Well, that's kind of big technical questions. It is. Want the answer? I mean it kind of slugs up the Gemara like, yeah. What Tosafot says there is that when the Gemara says when she became a גדול, doesn't mean she became a גדול, it means she became a גדול in a sense that she became a גדול in a sense that נהגה מנהג יהודית. יהודית, מה יהודית? נוהג מנהג יהדות. She was she was she was keeping she was keeping the the the. But there might have been a small window of time where she was a גדול with regard to age-wise, meaning she's now twelve and, I don't know, five days, let's say. So she could be she could be eligible for the קנס, but maybe she didn't have that opportunity to be נוהג מנהג יהדות. So she wasn't doing any any she wasn't lighting שבת candles or? Whatever, like there was no reason to make, bake חלה and keep the שבת or something or something like that. Some type of indicator. Whatever women do. So therefore the גדול means, that's that's what Tosafot says. That makes her a real גדול. So let's wait to see. Uh-huh. Okay, yishar koach. Thank you very much. I wish I got here five minutes earlier. I wish. It would have been helpful.