Zichronos book cover Zichronos is in print! Order your copy on Amazon
BAVA KAMA: CHAPTER 8

Bava Kamma 85

How Do You Put a Price on Someone Else's Pain?

Part of Bava Kama: chapter 8 · 54:43

Covers the halachic estimate for pain caused by injury (tza'ar), how lost work time is calculated, and whether multiple injuries to the same victim are each compensated separately.

Audio Transcript
Opening and Text Reference

Jewish audio on chabad.org. Today's 砖讬注讜专 will be in 诪住讻转 讘讘讗 拽诪讗, 讚祝 驻状讛, but we will start in 讚祝 驻状讚 注诪讜讚 讘壮, eleven lines from the bottom of the 注诪讜讚, by the two dots. The 讙诪专讗 quotes from the 诪砖谞讛. It said in the 诪砖谞讛, 爪注专, what is the example of having to pay if you cause someone pain? 讻讜讗讜 讘砖驻讜讚 讗讜 讘诪住诪专 讜讻讜诇讬, if you burned somebody with a hot spear or with a hot nail, and the 诪砖谞讛 says even if you burned him on his nail that didn't cause a 讞讘讜专讛, it didn't cause an injury to the person, nevertheless, you have to pay for the pain. And how do you estimate the pain? You see how much would a person like him be ready to receive in order to let himself be caused this pain, and that's the amount that you have to pay. But the 讙诪专讗 says, from the 诪砖谞讛 we see that 爪注专 砖诇讗 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽 诪砖诇诐, that if you cause someone pain and there was no 谞讝拽 involved, there was no injury that you should have to pay 谞讝拽 for, nevertheless, you have to pay for the 爪注专 itself. But the 讙诪专讗 says, 诪讗谉 转谞讗, who is the 转谞讗 that holds like that? 讗诪专 专讘讗, said 专讘讗, 讘谉 注讝讗讬 讛讬讗, this is 讘谉 注讝讗讬. 讚转谞讬讗, because we learned in a 讘专讬讬转讗, 专讘讬 讗讜诪专, 专讘讬 says, 讻讜讬讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞诇讛, that 讻讜讬讛 is mentioned first, 讘谉 注讝讗讬 讗讜诪专, 讘谉 注讝讗讬 says, 讞讘讜专讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞诇讛, that 讞讘讜专讛 is mentioned first. And this refers to the 驻住讜拽 in 驻专砖转 诪砖驻讟讬诐, 拽驻讬讟诇 讻状讗, 驻住讜拽 讻状讛. There it says, 讻讜讬讛 转讞转 讻讜讬讛, you shall pay for a burn instead of a burn, 驻爪注 转讞转 驻爪注, a wound for a wound, 讞讘讜专讛 转讞转 讞讘讜专讛, an injury for an injury. So there's a 诪讞诇讜拽转, what this word 讻讜讬讛, that's mentioned in the 转讜专讛, what does that mean? Now 讻讜讬讛 definitely refers to 爪注专. When you cause someone a burn, you cause him 爪注专. But the question is, when the 转讜专讛 says that you have to pay for the 爪注专, 讻讜讬讛 转讞转 讻讜讬讛, does that mean a kind of 爪注专 that came along with an injury that you must pay 谞讝拽 for, or does 讻讜讬讛 mean just a burn without a 讞讘讜专讛, so it's 爪注专 without an injury that you have to pay for, and that's what the 转讜专讛 says, 讻讜讬讛 转讞转 讻讜讬讛, you must pay for that 爪注专? Now, if

Question of 讻讜讬讛 Meaning With Injury

讻讜讬讛 means a 讞讘讜专讛 too, then the question is, why did the 转讜专讛 have to write later on 讞讘讜专讛 转讞转 讞讘讜专讛? So we must say that the 转讜专讛 is trying to teach us that even if there was no 讞讘讜专讛, you still have to pay for the 爪注专. Since 讻讜讬讛 itself means with a 讞讘讜专讛, and nevertheless the 转讜专讛 comes to say separately 讞讘讜专讛, to teach us that 讻讜讬讛 really meant without a 讞讘讜专讛, and you're 讞讬讬讘 to pay 爪注专 even if there was no injury. On the other hand, if 讻讜讬讛 means without an injury, and then the 转讜专讛 says 讞讘讜专讛 转讞转 讞讘讜专讛, so the 转讜专讛 is coming to add that when do you pay for the 讻讜讬讛, for the 爪注专, only if it came along with a 讞讘讜专讛. So this is the 诪讞诇讜拽转 between 专讘讬 and 讘谉 注讝讗讬. 专讘讬 says, 讻讜讬讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞诇讛, that 诇讻转讞诇讛 when it says 讻讜讬讛, it only means a 讻讜讬讛 without a 讞讘讜专讛. But 讘谉 注讝讗讬 讗讜诪专, 讘谉 注讝讗讬 says, 讞讘讜专讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞诇讛, that when it says 讻讜讬讛 诇讻转讞诇讛, it means 诇讻转讞诇讛, in the beginning, with a 讞讘讜专讛. The

Plain Meaning of 讻讜讬讛 as With Injury

驻砖讟 of 讻讜讬讛 is with a 讞讘讜专讛. And the 讙诪专讗 explains then, what a 诪讞诇讜拽转: 讘诪讗讬 拽诪讬驻诇讙讬, with what do they argue? 专讘讬 住讘专, 专讘讬 holds, 讻讜讬讛 讚诇讬转 讘讛 讞讘讜专讛 诪砖诪注. When it says 讻讜讬讛, it's 诪砖诪注 that there is no 讞讘讜专讛 there. So then, when 讻转讘 专讞诪谞讗 讞讘讜专讛, when the 转讜专讛 then writes 讞讘讜专讛, 诇讙诇讜讬 注诇 讻讜讬讛, it comes to reveal the 驻砖讟 in 讻讜讬讛, 讚讗讬 讗讬讻讗 讞讘讜专讛 讗讬谉, if the 讻讜讬讛 has a 讞讘讜专讛, then you pay for the 讻讜讬讛. In other words, if there is a 讞讘讜专讛 there that you have to pay 谞讝拽 for, so then you also pay for the 讻讜讬讛, for the 爪注专. 讗讬 诇讗 诇讗, but if there is no 讞讘讜专讛 there, and you don't pay for any 谞讝拽, so then you don't pay for the 爪注专 either. But 讘谉 注讝讗讬 住讘专, 讘谉 注讝讗讬 holds, 讻讜讬讛 讚讗讬转 讘讛 讞讘讜专讛 诪砖诪注. 诇讻转讞诇讛 when it says the word 讻讜讬讛, 诇讻转讞诇讛 it's 诪砖诪注 a 讻讜讬讛 with a 讞讘讜专讛. So then, when 讻转讘 专讞诪谞讗 讞讘讜专讛 诇讙诇讜讬 注诇 讻讜讬讛, when the 转讜专讛 writes by 讞讘讜专讛, it comes to reveal the 驻砖讟 in the 讻讜讬讛, 驻讜谞拽讟 驻讗专拽注专讟, that 讚诇讬转 讘讛 讞讘讜专讛, that the 讻讜讬讛 we mentioned before has no 讞讘讜专讛. Because if the 讻讜讬讛 would have a 讞讘讜专讛, then why did the 转讜专讛 have to write 讞讘讜专讛 later? Since the 转讜专讛 writes 讞讘讜专讛 later, that itself comes to show that 讻讜讬讛 is without a 讞讘讜专讛, and therefore you are 讞讬讬讘 to pay for 爪注专 even if there was no 讞讘讜专讛. So it comes out that we have a 诪讞诇讜拽转 here between 专讘讬 and 讘谉 注讝讗讬, whether you pay for 爪注专 砖诇讗 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽. And according to 专讘讬 who says that 讻讜讬讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞诇讛, he learns that only if it is with a 讞讘讜专讛, that's when you pay for the 讻讜讬讛, for the 爪注专. And 讘谉 注讝讗讬 says that since 讞讘讜专讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞诇讛, so what it says later 讞讘讜专讛, it's comes to reveal that 讻讜讬讛 by itself, you are also 讞讬讬讘. You are 讞讬讬讘 for 爪注专 砖诇讗 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽. And that's what the 讙诪专讗 meant, that who is the 转谞讗 of our 诪砖谞讛 to pay for 爪注专 砖诇讗 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽, that is 讘谉 注讝讗讬. And then the

Rav Papa鈥檚 Challenge to the Discussion

讙诪专讗 says: 诪转拽讬祝 诇讛 专讘 驻驻讗. Here 专讘 驻驻讗 asked a 拽讜砖讬讗: 讗讚专讘讛, 讗讬驻讻讗 诪住转讘专讗. The contrary, the 住讘专讗 should be just the opposite. Why should we say that each one when he says his opinion in what the word 讻讜讬讛 meant, why should we learn that he was only saying the way we would have thought, and then the word 讞讘讜专讛 comes to teach us differently? Why can't we say that he meant what the word 讻讜讬讛 means 诇驻讬 讛讗诪转 after we see the word 讞讘讜专讛 already? In other words, till now we learned that when 专讘讬 uses the term that 讻讜讬讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞讬诇讛, he means that 诇讻转讞讬诇讛 the word 讻讜讬讛 means without a 讞讘讜专讛, then the word 讞讘讜专讛 comes to say different, comes to show us that the 驻砖讟 is not that 讻讜讬讛 is without a 讞讘讜专讛, but 讻讜讬讛 is with a 讞讘讜专讛. When 讘谉 注讝讗讬 said 讞讘讜专讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞讬诇讛, he meant that when it says 讻讜讬讛, it 诇讻转讞讬诇讛 means with a 讞讘讜专讛, then the 驻住讜拽 讞讘讜专讛 comes to teach us just the opposite, that it's without a 讞讘讜专讛. Why can't we say just the opposite, that when 专讘讬 said 讻讜讬讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞讬诇讛, he means that 诇驻讬 讛讗诪转 after we see already the word 讞讘讜专讛, so now we know that the word 讻讜讬讛 is 讻讜讬讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞讬诇讛, is only 讻讜讬讛 without a 讞讘讜专讛. And when 讘谉 注讝讗讬 said 讞讘讜专讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞讬诇讛, he doesn't mean what he would have thought before the 转讜专讛 tells us the word 讞讘讜专讛, but he means 诇驻讬 讛讗诪转, after we have the word 讞讘讜专讛, so now we know that when it says 讻讜讬讛, it means together with a 讞讘讜专讛. And what would we gain if we would say it that way? First of all, we would be saying that the expression that they use is not just a 讛讜讛 讗诪讬谞讗, what we would have thought, but that is actually what it means, because that is 诪砖诪注 from their 诇砖讜谉, that 讻讜讬讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞讬诇讛 doesn't mean what we would have thought, but now we know the 讗诪转, that 讻讜讬讛 was said 诇讻转讞讬诇讛 without a 讞讘讜专讛. And when he says 讞讘讜专讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞讬诇讛, he means that is the 讗诪转, that when it says 讻讜讬讛, it means with a 讞讘讜专讛. But in addition to that, if we would say that, it would come out that which one of the two is the one that holds that you pay for 爪注专 砖诇讗 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽, it is 专讘讬. The way we said before it comes out, it is 讘谉 注讝讗讬 who says that. The way we're going to say now, it's 专讘讬. Now, since this is written in the 诪砖谞讛, and 专讘讬 was the one that was 诪住讚专 the 诪砖谞讬讜转, so it's much better to say that the 诪砖谞讛 goes according to 专讘讬, rather than according to the one that argues on 专讘讬. So that's what 专讘 驻驻讗 asked: why did we say the 驻砖讟 the way we did, and it comes out that the 诪砖谞讛 goes according to 讘谉 注讝讗讬? Why can't you say the 驻砖讟 different, and then the 诪砖谞讛 will go according to 专讘讬? Why don't we say the 驻砖讟 that 专讘讬 讗讜诪专: 讻讜讬讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞讬诇讛, that when 专讘讬 says 诇讻转讞讬诇讛 when the word 讻讜讬讛 is said, it means without a 讞讘讜专讛, just a 讻讜讬讛, just the 爪注专, because 住讘专 he holds 讻讜讬讛 讚讬砖 讘讛 讞讘讜专讛 诪砖诪注, that 诇讻转讞讬诇讛 when it says 讻讜讬讛, it's 诪砖诪注 with a 讞讘讜专讛, with 谞讝拽. 讻转讘 专讞诪谞讗 讞讘讜专讛, so when the 转讜专讛 writes 讞讘讜专讛, 诇讙诇讜讬 注诇讛 讚讻讜讬讛, that comes to reveal the 驻砖讟 in 讻讜讬讛 that 讚诇讬转 讘讛 讞讘讜专讛, that it has no 讞讘讜专讛. So when he said 讻讜讬讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞讬诇讛 without a 讞讘讜专讛, that is the 讗诪转, that is after we know the real 驻砖讟, after the 转讜专讛 writes for you the word 讞讘讜专讛. And when 讘谉 注讝讗讬 讗讜诪专, 讘谉 注讝讗讬 says 讞讘讜专讛 谞讗诪专讛 转讞讬诇讛, that the word 讻讜讬讛 诇讻转讞讬诇讛 means together with a 讞讘讜专讛, 住讘专 because he holds 讻讜讬讛 讚诇讬转 讘讛 讞讘讜专讛 诪砖诪注, that 诇讻转讞讬诇讛 when it says just the word 讻讜讬讛, if not for the other word 讞讘讜专讛 later, we would think it means a 讻讜讬讛 without a 讞讘讜专讛, just 爪注专 without 谞讝拽. 讻转讘 专讞诪谞讗 讞讘讜专讛, when the 转讜专讛 writes 讞讘讜专讛, 诇讙诇讜讬 注诇讛 讚讻讜讬讛, to reveal to us what the word 讻讜讬讛 means, that 讚讗讬 讬砖 讘讛 讞讘讜专讛 讗讬谉, if the 讻讜讬讛 comes along with a 讞讘讜专讛, then you pay for the 讻讜讬讛, for the 爪注专, 讗讬 诇讗 诇讗, and if not, not, if there is no 谞讝拽 along with the 爪注专, then you don't pay for the 爪注专. And then it comes out 讗诪住拽谞讗 拽讬讬诪讬, that the word that they use is the 诪住拽谞讗, is the end, is the real 驻砖讟, the way we know the meaning in the word 讻讜讬讛 at the end, after the 转讜专讛 already writes the word 讞讘讜专讛. 讗讬 谞诪讬, maybe you could say another 驻砖讟, that 讚讻讜诇讬 注诇诪讗 they both hold 讻讜讬讛 讘讬谉 讚讬砖 讘讛 讞讘讜专讛 讘讬谉 讚诇讬转 讘讛 讞讘讜专讛 诪砖诪注, that a 讻讜讬讛 means whether it has a 讞讘讜专讛 or not. So when the 转讜专讛 says 讻讜讬讛 转讞转 讻讜讬讛, it means that you should pay for 爪注专 even if there is no 讞讘讜专讛. That's the way 诇讻转讞讬诇讛 the word is 诪砖诪注. But the 诪讞诇讜拽转 is 讜讛讻讗 讘讻诇诇 讜驻专讟 讛诪专讜讞拽讬诐 讝讛 诪讝讛 拽诪讬驻诇讙讬, that here you have a 讻诇诇 and a 驻专讟 that are far from each other, not close to each other, but there is a 讛驻住拽 in between, an interruption between, and the 诪讞诇讜拽转 is whether we still consider it a 讻诇诇 讜驻专讟. The 讚讬谉 is that whenever we find in the 转讜专讛 a 讻诇诇 and a 驻专讟, the 转讜专讛 first says a rule, and then the 转讜专讛 says a 驻专讟, gives a detail in the rule, so then the 讛诇讻讛 is that 讗讬谉 讘讻诇诇 讗诇讗 诪讛 砖讘驻专讟, that what the 讻诇诇 includes only what the 驻专讟 said. If the 转讜专讛 wouldn't have mentioned the 驻专讟, the 转讜专讛 would just give a rule that include many things, then they all would be included in the 讚讬谉. But since after the 讻诇诇, the 转讜专讛 gives a 驻专讟, so then we say the 转讜专讛 comes to tell us that even though I said a 讻诇诇, what I really mean is only the 驻专讟. 讗讬谉 讘讻诇诇 讗诇讗 诪讛 砖讘驻专讟, only that actual thing that is mentioned in the 转讜专讛. But that is only in the case where the 讻诇诇 and the 驻专讟 are written in the 转讜专讛 together, one right next to each other. First the 转讜专讛 gives a 讻诇诇, says a general expression, then right away the 转讜专讛 gives a 驻专讟, mentions a detail, then we say that what the 转讜专讛 really means is only the detail, not the general 讻诇诇. But what is the case if in between the 讻诇诇 and the 驻专讟 there are other words written in between? Do we still 讚专砖谉 it in the 注谞讬谉 of a 讻诇诇 and a 驻专讟, or we say it is not anymore a 讻诇诇 and a 驻专讟? And therefore, this 讚讬谉, that when there is a 讻诇诇 and a 驻专讟, 讗讬谉 讘讻诇诇 讗诇讗 诪讛 砖讘驻专讟, the 讻诇诇 really means only what the 驻专讟 says, wouldn't apply there. And that is actually the case here. The

讻讜讬讛 as a General Rule (讻诇诇) Versus 驻专讟

word 讻讜讬讛 is like a 讻诇诇, since we just said that they both hold that 讻讜讬讛 means whether it has a 讞讘讜专讛 or it doesn't have a 讞讘讜专讛. So it's like a 讻诇诇 including two cases, two possibilities. So if right afterwards the 转讜专讛 would have written 讞讘讜专讛 转讞转 讞讘讜专讛, and 讞讘讜专讛 is a 驻专讟, then that would reveal to us that you're only 讞讬讬讘 if there is a 讞讘讜专讛 there. But now that the truth is, in between the words 讻讜讬讛 转讞转 讻讜讬讛, which is the 讻诇诇, and the words 讞讘讜专讛 转讞转 讞讘讜专讛, which is the 驻专讟, there are other words in between, the words 驻爪注 转讞转 驻爪注. So the 诪讞诇讜拽转 is, 专讘讬 住讘专, 专讘讬 holds, 讗讬谉 讚谞讬谉 讗讜转讜 讘讻诇诇 讜驻专讟. We don't 讚专砖谉 this as a 讻诇诇 讜驻专讟. And therefore, according to 专讘讬, the 讚讬谉 is still as the 讻诇诇, that even if it has no 讞讘讜专讛, still you are 讞讬讬讘 for the 讻讜讬讛, for the 爪注专, even if it's 砖诇讗 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽, you still pay for the 爪注专. 讜专讘谞谉 住讘专讬, 专讘谞谉 hold, 讚谞讬谉 讗讜转讜 讘讻诇诇 讜驻专讟, we still consider it as a 讻诇诇 and a 驻专讟 even though there are words in between, and therefore we say 讗讬谉 讘讻诇诇 讗诇讗 诪讛 砖讘驻专讟, that the 讚讬谉 is only in the case of the 驻专讟, and therefore he holds that only if there is a 讞讘讜专讛 there and you also pay for 谞讝拽, that's when you pay for the 爪注专, but if there wouldn't be any 谞讝拽 there, then you wouldn't pay for the 爪注专. And then the

Gmara鈥檚 Question About the Need for 讞讘讜专讛

讙诪专讗 asks: 讜讻讬 转讬诪讗, you might say, 讞讘讜专讛 讚专讘讬 诇诪讛 诇讬? Why did the 转讜专讛 have to write, according to 专讘讬, the word 讞讘讜专讛, since we don't 讚专砖谉 it as a 讻诇诇 讜驻专讟? We stick to the 讻诇诇, that even if there is 爪注专 without 谞讝拽, you pay for it. Also, if there is 谞讝拽, you also pay, because the 讻诇诇 remains both. So from the word 讻讜讬讛 itself, we already know 讞讘讜专讛, because 讻讜讬讛 could mean both, and the 驻专讟 doesn't come to teach us any special 讚讬谉. So then why did the 转讜专讛 have to tell us the 驻专讟 of 讞讘讜专讛? And the 讙诪专讗 answers: 诇讚诪讬诐 讬转讬专讬诐, for the extra money. Meaning that if the 转讜专讛 wouldn't say 讞讘讜专讛 转讞转 讞讘讜专讛, so we would think that you always pay for 爪注专. Now, if there is 爪注专 together with a 讞讘讜专讛, you still pay for the 爪注专, but who says that you also pay for the 谞讝拽, the extra money for the 谞讝拽? So the 转讜专讛 has to tell us that you pay for 谞讝拽 also. Therefore, the 转讜专讛 writes 讞讘讜专讛 转讞转 讞讘讜专讛, that because of an injury you must pay for that too. So now we know that you pay for 爪注专 separately, and you pay for 谞讝拽 separately. This is the way it seems the 驻砖讟 in these words, 诇讚诪讬诐 讬转讬专讬诐, from 专砖"讬, and this is the way the 诪讛专砖"讗 understood that 驻砖讟 in 专砖"讬. But 转讜住驻讜转 understood the 驻砖讟 in 专砖"讬 differently. 转讜住驻讜转 learned that 专砖"讬 meant to say that if the 转讜专讛 would not write 讞讘讜专讛, just 讻讜讬讛, we would think that if you have a 讻讜讬讛, 爪注专 together with 谞讝拽, you only pay for one, you only pay for the 谞讝拽, not for the 爪注专. That's why the 转讜专讛 has to tell us 讞讘讜专讛, to teach us that when you have a 讞讘讜专讛, you pay for both. You pay for the 谞讝拽 separately and for the 爪注专 separately. So it comes out that according to this 驻砖讟, the way 转讜住驻讜转 learns in 专砖"讬, that the 讞讬讚讜砖 of the words 讞讘讜专讛 转讞转 讞讘讜专讛 is to teach us that you pay 爪注专 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽, that even if there is both, so you would think you have to pay only 谞讝拽, the 驻住讜拽 teaches us that you have to pay also 爪注专. And because 转讜住驻讜转 learns that way 驻砖讟 in 专砖"讬, that's why 转讜住驻讜转 have a 拽讜砖讬讗 on 专砖"讬. They say that how can we say in this 讙诪专讗 that we learn out from the words 讞讘讜专讛 转讞转 讞讘讜专讛 that you have to pay 爪注专 even when you pay 谞讝拽? Don't we learn that out from the 驻住讜拽 驻爪注 转讞转 驻爪注? And another 拽讜砖讬讗 that 转讜住驻讜转 ask. And therefore 转讜住驻讜转 learns the 驻砖讟 in the 讙诪专讗 differently. When the 讙诪专讗 says that according to 专讘讬 the words 讞讘讜专讛 转讞转 讞讘讜专讛 come to teach us 诇讚诪讬诐 讬转讬专讬诐, for extra money, it doesn't mean to tell us that we would think you only pay for one of the two, or for 爪注专 or for 谞讝拽, and the 驻住讜拽 comes to teach us that you pay for both. It means to say that in the case, for instance, that you caused him pain that will leave a scar, now, if it wouldn't have left a scar, he would have had the same pain, so we would think that you pay the same amount whether it leaves a scar or not, so the 讙诪专讗 tells us the 驻住讜拽 comes to teach us, 讚讗 诪讬讬谞讟 注住 讘讗诪转 that you have to pay extra money. Since he's going to have more embarrassment later through the pain that he had now, because it's going to leave a scar, so therefore, you have to pay more money. That's what 讞讘讜专讛, 转讞转 讞讘讜专讛 comes to teach us, in addition to 讻讜讬讛 转讞转 讻讜讬讛 that teaches us that you have to pay for 爪注专 and it also includes the 谞讝拽, that you have to pay even extra money, that's what the 驻住讜拽 teaches us. That if there is an extra extension to the 爪注专, you must pay for that too. Then the

Estimating Compensation for Pain (注讜诪讚讬谉 讻诪讛 讗讚诐)

讙诪专讗 continues, we've learned in the 诪砖谞讛: 注讜诪讚讬谉 讻诪讛 讗讚诐 讻讬讜爪讗 讘讝讛 专讜爪讛 诇讬讟讜诇 讜讻讜诇讜, we estimate how much would a person like him be ready to take in order to have this kind of pain, and that's how much we give him. So the 讙诪专讗 says: 爪注专 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽 讛讬讻讗 砖讬讬诪讬谞谉? When you have to pay for 爪注专, for the pain, but at the same time when you also pay for the 谞讝拽, for the damage, for the depreciation, how do you estimate that? In a case where there is no 谞讝拽, then you estimate how much would a person be willing to take in order to have this done to him. But in a case where you also cause a damage to him, so then you already estimate of how much this 讗讘专 is worth, and that's how much 讜讘驻砖讟讜转 a person would be ready to take in order to have it cut off etc. So how do you estimate with together with the 谞讝拽 also the pain that he has? 讗诪专 讗讘讜讛 讚砖诪讜讗诇, the father of 砖诪讜讗诇 said, 注讜诪讚讬谉 讻诪讛 讗讚诐 专讜爪讛 诇讬讟讜诇 诇拽讟讜注 诇讜 讬讚讜, we estimate how much would a person be ready to take to have his hand cut off. So the 讙诪专讗 asks: 诇拽讟讜注 诇讜 讬讚讜? If you estimate how much he would be ready to take to have his hand cut off, 诇讗讜 爪注专 诇讞讜讚讬讛 讛讜讗, here, for that, you don't only get 爪注专, 讛讗 讻讜诇讛讜 讞诪讬砖讛 讚讘专讬诐 讗讬讻讗! Then you have all five things there. So if a person would be willing to have this done to him, he would ask for the amount of money a person would get including all five things. So how does that estimate just the value of the 爪注专? 讜注讜讚, another thing, 讘砖讜转讬 注住拽讬谞谉? Are we talking about foolish people? A person who would who would let his hand be cut off? A person, for any money in the world, would not have his hand cut off! How can you estimate how much a person would be ready to take to have his hand cut off? 讗诇讗, what do we mean? 诇拽讟讜注 讬讚讜 讛拽讟讜注讛, how much is a person willing to give to have his hand which is already cut off, to have it cut off? It means to say it's already cut off almost, it just connects, it's just hanging, but it can't function anyway. How much would a person be willing to have that hand cut off? And then all you have is 爪注专, the 讙诪专讗 thought. So then the 讙诪专讗 asks: 讬讚讜 讛拽讟讜注讛, if his hand is already cut off, in other words it's just hanging, 谞诪讬 诇讗 爪注专 诇讞讜讚讬讛 讗讬讻讗, also not only 爪注专 is there, 讛讗 爪注专 讜讘讜砖转 讗讬讻讗, there is 爪注专 and there's also embarrassment. What kind of embarrassment? 讚讻住讬驻讗 诇讬讛 诪讬诇转讗, a person is embarrassed 诇诪砖拽诇讬讛 诇讘讬砖专讗 讜诇诪讬砖讚讬讛 诇讻诇讘讬诐, to take some of his flesh and throw it to the dogs. Even if it's hanging just there, but nevertheless it is still connected to him. If they will cut it off completely, what will they do with it? They will throw it away, and the dogs will eat it up. So it's an embarrassment for the person. So here it's not just the 爪注专 that he will have, he will also have embarrassment. So you can't just estimate how much would a person be willing to give to have that done to him, because that amount includes 爪注专 and 讘讜砖转. We're just trying to figure out how do you figure just the 爪注专. 讗诇讗, so what does it mean? 注讜诪讚讬谉, we estimate 讻诪讛 讗讚诐 专讜爪讛 诇讬讟讜诇, how much would a person be willing to take 诇拽讟讜注 诇讜 讬讚讜 讚诪讜讻转讘 诇诪诇讻讜转 讘讬谉 住诐 诇住讬讬祝. If a person had a decree on him from the king that he had to have his hand cut off, but 诪爪讚 讙讝讬专讛 of the king they would cut it off with 住诐, with a special medicine, it would hurt very little. How much would a person be willing to take that they should cut off his hand not with that medicine, but with a sword? Where you have more pain. And that amount of money is the amount that you estimate for the 爪注专. But then the 讙诪专讗 says: 讗诪专讬, I'll tell you, 讛讻讗 谞诪讬, here too, 诇讗 砖拽讬诇 讜诪爪注专 谞驻砖讬讛, no person would take any money and to have that 爪注专. Since he's able to have his hand cut off through the medicine, through the 住诐, why should any person agree to have it cut off by a sword? And no money would be enough to pay for that. 讗诇讗, what must we say? 注讜诪讚讬谉 讻诪讛 讗讚诐 专讜爪讛 诇讬转谉 诇拽讟讜注 诇讜 讬讚讜 讚诪讜讻转讘 诇诪诇讻讜转 讘讬谉 住讬讬祝 诇住诐, just opposite. If a person had a decree on him that they should cut off his hand with a sword, and now how much would he be ready to give in order to have it cut off with the medicine that he should have less pain, so that amount that a person would be ready to give for that, that is the amount of 爪注专. But then the 讙诪专讗 asks that this doesn't fit to our 诪砖谞讛. In our 诪砖谞讛 it says we estimate how much would a person be willing to take to have it done to him, but if we're going to say the way we just said, that we estimate how much would a person be willing to give to change 讛讗讬 诇讬讟讜诇, how could the 诪砖谞讛 say 诇讬讟讜诇? 诇讬讟讜诇, we estimate how much he would take, 诇讬转谉 诪讬讘注讬 诇讬讛, it should have said how much he would give.

Clarifying the Term 诇讬讟讜诇 in the Mishnah

Therefore, 讗诪专 专讘 讛讜谞讗 讘专讬讛 讚专讘 讬讛讜砖注, 专讘 讛讜谞讗 the son of 专讘 讬讛讜砖注 said, that what do we mean, 诇讬讟讜诇? 讝讛 诪讝讛 诪讛 砖谞转谉 讝讛. That the word 诇讬讟讜诇 means to take, that the 谞讬讝拽, the one that was damaged, takes that amount from the 诪讝讬拽, the amount a person would be ready to give for this to happen to him. So the word 诇讬讟讜诇, which means to take, is not how we estimate it, but this is referring to the payment itself, that when it comes to a 讛讬讝拽, so then a 谞讬讝拽 takes from the 诪讝讬拽 for the 爪注专 the amount a person would be ready to give to the king, and that to change the decree from having his hand cut with a sword to having it cut by medicine, etc. Then the 讙诪专讗 says we learn in the 诪砖谞讛, 专讬驻讜讬, what is the case of paying for curings? 讛讻讛讜, if he hit him, 讞讬讬讘 诇专驻讗讜转讜 讜讻讜诇讬, he has to cure him. And the

Mishnah on healing and loss of time obligations

诪砖谞讛 says if certain growths grew on it, if they came because of the wound that he made him, then he has to pay to cure that too. If it didn't come because of the wound that he made, then he is 驻讟讜专. And then the 诪砖谞讛 continues, that if it healed and then it reopened, and healed and reopened, all these times he has to pay for the curing. But if it healed completely, and then it reopened, so then the other person is not obligated to pay for that. Then the 讙诪专讗 says, 转谞讜 专讘谞谉, and the 专讘谞谉 learned, 注诇讜 讘讜 爪诪讞讬诐 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛, if certain things grew on it because of the wound, 谞住转专讛 讛诪讻讛, and the wound reopened, 讞讬讬讘 诇专驻讗讜转讜, so he has to cure him, he has to pay for his medical bills, 讜讞讬讬讘 诇讬转谉 诇讜 讚诪讬 砖讘转讜, and he also has to pay for the loss of time. Even if it happened later, but since he lost time from work because of the 诪讻讛, so the person who did it is obligated to pay for that. 讜讗诐 砖诇讗 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛, if it happened not because of the wound that the other person did, 讗讬谞讜 讞讬讬讘 诇专驻讗讜转讜, he doesn't have to cure him, 讜讗讬谞讜 讞讬讬讘 诇讬转谉 诇讜 讚诪讬 砖讘转讜, and he doesn't have to pay him for the loss of time. 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 讗讜诪专, 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 says, 讗祝 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛, 讞讬讬讘 诇专驻讗讜转讜 讜讗讬谞讜 讞讬讬讘 诇讬转谉 诇讜 讚诪讬 砖讘转讜, that even if it reopened and it came back because of the 诪讻讛, so he just has to cure him, but he doesn't have to pay him for lost time. 讜讞讻诪讬诐 讗讜诪专讬诐, and the 讞讻诪讬诐 say, 砖讘转讜 讜专驻讜讗转讜, that the 转讜专讛 puts the two together. The 转讜专讛 says, 专拽 砖讘转讜 讬转谉 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗, that you pay him for the loss of time and you have to cure him. So the 转讜专讛 puts them together to teach us that 讻诇 砖讞讬讬讘 讘砖讘转 讞讬讬讘 讘专讬驻讜讬, that anytime you are obligated to pay for his lost time, you are also obligated to pay for his medical expenses. 讜砖讗讬谞讜 讞讬讬讘 讘砖讘转 讗讬谞讜 讞讬讬讘 讘专讬驻讜讬, and if you are not obligated to pay for his lost time, you are also not obligated to pay for his medical expenses. And therefore, since the 讞讻诪讬诐 hold like 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛, that in a case like this you do not have to pay for his lost time, so they hold that you also don't have to pay for his medical expenses. So we have three opinions here: the first 转谞讗 holds that even if the 诪讻讛 reopened because of the things that grew on it, that came because of the 诪讻讛, so then the first person is obligated to pay for his medical expenses and for his lost time; 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 holds, you're only obligated to pay for his medical expenses, not for his lost time; and the 讞讻诪讬诐 hold, that you're not obligated to pay for either of them. And the 讙诪专讗 asks, 讜讘诪讗讬 拽诪讬驻诇讙讬? In what do they argue? What is the 住讘专讗 of their 诪讞诇讜拽转? 讗诪专 专讘讗, so 专讘讗 said, 讗砖讻讞转讬谞讛讜 诇专讘谞谉 讚讘讬 专讘, I found the 专讘谞谉 in the 讬砖讬讘讛 of 专讘, 讚讬转讘讬 讜拽讗诪专讬, that they were sitting and they were saying, 讚讛讻讗 讘诪讻讛 谞讬转谞讛 诇讗讙讚 拽诪讬驻诇讙讬. That their argument is based on the 住讘专讗 whether you allow him to bandage his 诪讻讛, his wound. The reason he wants to bandage his wound is so it shouldn't get cold. On the other hand, it might cause it to swell up through the heat. And that's what caused the 爪诪讞讬诐, the extra things to grow on it. 专讘谞谉 住讘专讬, the 专讘谞谉 hold, 诪讻讛 谞讬转谞讛 诇讗讙讚, that he does have the right to bandage his 诪讻讛. And therefore, when the 爪诪讞讬诐 grew on this 诪讻讛 later, it's not his fault, because he had a right to bandage the 诪讻讛. And therefore, anything that comes out of the bandage is not his fault, and it's all in the responsibility of the 诪讝讬拽. And therefore, if it opens up again because of that, the 诪讝讬拽 is completely responsible for it. So therefore he has to pay for the medical expenses, he has to pay for the loss of time, etc. But 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 住讘专, 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 holds, 诪讻讛 诇讗 谞讬转谞讛 诇讗讙讚, that A 诪讻讛 is not allowed to be bandaged. And if it was bandaged, and that caused the swelling, and that caused the problems later on, then it is not in the responsibility of the 诪讝讬拽, but it is under the responsibility of the 谞讬讝拽. And therefore, 专讬驻讜讬 concerning curing, 讚转谞讗 讘拽专讗 the 转讜专讛 repeated it, the 转讜专讛 says 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗, heal he should heal. The 转讜专讛 writes twice the word heal, so that comes to add an additional 讚讬谉 concerning the medical expenses, so 诪讞讬讬讘 for that, he is 讞讬讬讘 even in a case like this, even if it's not indirectly responsible. But 砖讘转 concerning his lost time, 讚诇讗 转谞讗 讘拽专讗 the 转讜专讛 did not repeat, it just says 专拽 砖讘转讜 讬转谉, 诇讗 诪讞讬讬讘 so that is not 讞讬讬讘. So he says this is what I heard the 专讘谞谉 in the 讬砖讬讘讛 of 专讘 explaining. 讜讗诪讬谞讗 诇讛讜 讗谞讗, so he says I told to them, 讗讬 诪讻讛 诇讗 谞讬转谞讛 诇讗讙讚, if you're saying that the reason of 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 is because he holds that you have no right to bandage the 诪讻讛, 讚专讬驻讜讬 谞诪讬 诇讗 诪讞讬讬讘, then he shouldn't even have to pay for the medical expenses. 讗诇讗 therefore I must say that the 诪讞诇讜拽转 is in something else, 讚讻讜诇讬 注诇诪讗 everyone holds that 诪讻讛 谞讬转谞讛 诇讗讙讚, but 诇讗 谞讬转谞讛 诇讗讙讚 讬转讬专讛, that you're allowed to bandage the wound, but you're not allowed to bandage it too much. That 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 住讘专, 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 holds, 讻讬讜讜谉 讚诇讗 谞讬转谞讛 诇讗讙讚 讬转讬专讛 since you're not allowed to do it too much, concerning 专讬驻讜讬 therefore when it comes to curing, 讚转谞讗 讘拽专讗 that the 转讜专讛 repeated it, 诪讞讬讬讘 you're 讞讬讬讘. But 砖讘转, for the lost time, 讚诇讗 转谞讗 讘拽专讗 since the 转讜专讛 did not repeat it, 诇讗 诪讞讬讬讘 you're not 讞讬讬讘. Even though you were allowed to do it, but since you weren't allowed to do it too much, so therefore in a case where the 转讜专讛 didn't really stress it concerning that 讚讬谉, you would be 驻讟讜专. But 专讘谞谉 住讘专讬 the 专讘谞谉, meaning the 转谞讗 拽诪讗, the first 转谞讗, they hold that 讻讬讜讜谉 讚转谞讗 讘拽专讗 讘专讬驻讜讬, since the 转讜专讛 repeated it by curing and therefore you claim you are 讞讬讬讘 for curing, so 讗砖讘转 谞诪讬 诪讞讬讬讘, so therefore automatically you're 讞讬讬讘 also for the lost time, because 讚讗讬拽讬砖 诇专讬驻讜讬, because the 转讜专讛 compares the 砖讘转 the lost time to the curing, so therefore since you are 讞讬讬讘 for curing, you're also 讞讬讬讘 for the lost time. 讜专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 住讘专, but 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 holds, that 砖讘转 诇讗 诪讞讬讬讘, that for 砖讘转 you are not 讞讬讬讘, for the lost time you're not 讞讬讬讘, because 讚诪讬注讟讬讛 拽专讗, because the 转讜专讛 excluded it with the word 专拽. Since the 转讜专讛 says 专拽 砖讘转讜 讬转谉, 专拽 but you should pay for the lost time, so with the word 专拽 the 转讜专讛 means to exclude but, only this, not something else. So the 转讜专讛 comes to say that in a case like this you are not 讞讬讬讘 to pay for the 砖讘转. But 专讘谞谉, the 专讘谞谉 the first 转谞讗 again who argue on 专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛 and they say you are 讞讬讬讘 for 砖讘转, 专拽, that this 诇讬诪讜讚 of the word 专拽, this word that comes to exclude doesn't come to exclude this case, but 诇砖诇讗 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛 讛讜讗 讚讗转讗讬, it comes to exclude if the 爪诪讞讬诐 the growths came not because of the 诪讻讛, so then you are 驻讟讜专 from paying for 砖讘转. I one might ask it's very simple, if it came back not because of the 诪讻讛, certainly the other person is not responsible? But 专砖"讬 says that the 讙诪专讗 will explain that it's in a case where he didn't listen to the doctor. So, 讟讗拽注 came back not because of the 诪讻讛, but still he didn't listen to the doctor to do what the doctor says, so then we might think that you have to pay for the 砖讘转, the 驻住讜拽 tells us 专拽 that you do not have to pay for the 砖讘转 in that case. But in our case where it came back because of the 诪讻讛, you have to pay for 专讬驻讜讬 and for 砖讘转. That is the opinion of the first 转谞讗. 讜专讘谞谉 讘转专讗讬, but according to the second 专讘谞谉 the third opinion in the 讘专讬讬转讗, 讚讗诪专讬 that they say 讻诇 砖讞讬讬讘 讘砖讘转 讞讬讬讘 讘专讬驻讜讬, that anytime you are 讞讬讬讘 to pay for the lost time you're 讞讬讬讘 for the medical bills, 讜讻诇 砖讗讬谞讜 讞讬讬讘 讘砖讘转 讗讬谞讜 讞讬讬讘 讘专讬驻讜讬, that if you're not 讞讬讬讘 to pay for the lost time you're not 讞讬讬讘 to pay for the medical expenses. So the question in the 讙诪专讗 is 专讬驻讜讬 讚转谞讗 讘拽专讗 诇诪讛 诇讬? So why did the 转讜专讛 repeat 专讬驻讜讬? Because as we said before, the only reason the 转讜专讛 repeats 专讬驻讜讬 to teach us that even in a case like this you still have to pay for the medical expenses, but according to them that they hold that you do not have to pay in a case like this for the medical expenses, so why did the 转讜专讛 repeat concerning 专讬驻讜讬 concerning the curing? The 讙诪专讗 answers, 诪讬讘注讬讗 诇讬讛 诇讻讚转谞讗 讚讘讬 专讘讬 讬砖诪注讗诇. They need it for a different 诇讬诪讜讚, for the 诇讬诪讜讚 that they learned in the 讬砖讬讘讛 of 专讘讬 讬砖诪注讗诇. 讚转谞讬讗 because we learned in a 讘专讬讬转讗, 转谞讗 讚讘讬 专讘讬 讬砖诪注讗诇, a doctor, another person, is able to come and cure. But if a person got sick 讘讬讚讬 砖诪讬诐, he got sick by nature, which means it came directly from 讛砖诐 without another person getting involved, so here we would think that if you get a doctor to cure you, then you're going against the 讙讝讬专讛 the decree of 讛砖诐. So that's why we have to have another time the word 讬专驻讗 to teach us that even in a case like that, a doctor has a right to cure. Then the 讙诪专讗 continues, 转谞讜 专讘谞谉 the 专讘谞谉 learned, 诪谞讬讬谉 how do we know 砖注诇讜 讘讜 爪诪讞讬诐 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛 讜谞住转专讛 讛诪讻讛, that if certain things grew on top of the 诪讻讛, because of the 诪讻讛, and that's why the 诪讻讛 reopened again, 砖讞讬讬讘 诇专驻讗讜转讜 讜讞讬讬讘 诇讬转谉 诇讜 砖讘转讜, that you must cure him, it is the obligation of the 诪讝讬拽 to pay for his medical expenses, and also his obligation to pay for his lost time, how do we know that? 转诇诪讜讚 诇讜诪专, so the 驻住讜拽 says, 专拽 砖讘转讜 讬转谉 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗. The 转讜专讛 says that you should pay for his lost time, and you should also cure him, which means that since the 转讜专讛 says 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗, a double 诇砖讜谉, so that comes to teach us that even if it happened in the way mentioned here, that things grew on it and later it reopened, you still have to pay, so we learn that out from the extra word 讬专驻讗. And since the 转讜专讛 puts together 砖讘转讜 together with 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗, so that teaches us that if you are 讞讬讬讘 to pay for the 专讬驻讜讬, for the medical expenses, automatically you are 讞讬讬讘 to pay for the lost time too. So then, 讬讻讜诇, I would think, 讗驻讬诇讜 砖诇讗 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛, if it reopened not because of the 诪讻讛, you also are obligated to pay, 转诇诪讜讚 诇讜诪专 专拽. The 转讜专讛 says 专拽, only, which is a 诪讬注讜讟, comes to exclude, to teach us that if it didn't happen because of the 诪讻讛, so then you are not obligated to pay. 专讘 讬讜住讬 讘专 讬讛讜讚讛 讗讜诪专, 专讘 讬讜住讬, the son of 专讘 讬讛讜讚讛, says, 讗祝 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛 驻讟讜专, even if it happened because of the 诪讻讛, you're also 驻讟讜专, 砖谞讗诪专 专拽, because the 转讜专讛 says 专拽, so that comes to exclude all cases, that if it didn't happen directly from the 诪讻讛, it came through the growth that grew on the 诪讻讛, so then you are 驻讟讜专. But what does he mean that you are 驻讟讜专? Does he mean you are 驻讟讜专 from everything, or does he mean you are only 驻讟讜专 from the lost time, but you are 讞讬讬讘 for the medical expenses? So the 讙诪专讗 says, 讗讬讻讗 讚讗诪专讬, some say, 讗祝 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛 驻讟讜专 诇讙诪专讬, that even if it happened because of the 诪讻讛, you are still 驻讟讜专 from everything, 讻专讘谞谉 讘转专讗讬, like the last 专讘谞谉, like the third opinion that was mentioned in the previous 讘专讬讬转讗. 讜讗讬讻讗 讚讗诪专讬, and some say, 讗祝 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛 驻讟讜专 诪砖讘转 讜讞讬讬讘 讘专讬驻讜讬, that if it happened even through the 诪讻讛, you are 讟讗拽注 驻讟讜专 from the lost time, but you are 讞讬讬讘 for the medical expenses. 讻诪讗谉? According to who does he hold if that's his opinion? 讻讗讘讜讛, like his father, since we said in the previous 讘专讬讬转讗 that 专讘 讬讛讜讚讛 holds that if it happened because of the 诪讻讛, you are 讞讬讬讘 to pay for the medical expenses, but not for the lost time, so if this is the opinion of 专讘 讬讜住讬 讘专讘讬 讬讛讜讚讛, so then he holds like his father. Then the 讙诪专讗 says, 讗诪专 诪专, we just learned before, 讬讻讜诇 讗驻讬诇讜 砖诇讗 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛, and I would think that even if it happened not because of the 诪讻讛, you still are 讞讬讬讘 to pay for 砖讘转 and for 专讬驻讜讬, 转诇诪讜讚 诇讜诪专 专拽. So therefore we have the 驻住讜拽 专拽 to exclude that in a case like that you are 驻讟讜专. So the 讙诪专讗 asks, 砖诇讗 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛 讘注讬 拽专讗? But if it didn't happen because of the 诪讻讛, do you need a 驻住讜拽 to tell us that you're 驻讟讜专? Obviously you're 驻讟讜专. Certainly he is not responsible if it didn't even come because of the 诪讻讛. 讗诪专讬, so the 讙诪专讗 says, we will tell you, 诪讗讬 砖诇讗 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛, what do we mean that if it happened not because of the 诪讻讛 we still would have thought that you're 讞讬讬讘? It means 讻讚转谞讬讗, like we learned in a 讘专讬讬转讗, we learned, 讛专讬 砖注讘专 注诇 讚讘专讬 讛专讜驻讗, for instance, he didn't listen to what the doctor said, 讜讗讻诇 讚讘砖, and he ate honey, 讜讻诇 诪讬谞讬 诪转讬拽讛, or all other sweet things, because 诪驻谞讬 砖讛讚讘砖 讜讻诇 诪讬谞讬 诪转讬拽讛 拽砖讬谉 诇诪讻讛, we know that honey or all other sweets are no good for a 诪讻讛, and he didn't listen to the doctor telling him he shouldn't eat it, and he went along and he ate it, 讜讛注诇讛 诪讻转讜 讙专讙讜转谞讬, and scabs grew on the wound, 讬讻讜诇, I would think, 讬讛讗 讞讬讬讘 诇专驻讗讜转讜, that the person who caused, the original person is obligated to cure him, 转诇诪讜讚 诇讜诪专 专拽, so the 转讜专讛 says 专拽 to exclude that. In other words, on one hand, it is the fault of the first person because it came directly from the 诪讻讛, but the person of the with the wound could have prevented it by listening to the doctor. Since he didn't prevent it, that's why you are 驻讟讜专. But at least we understand why there would have been a 讛讜讛 讗诪讬谞讗 that he should be 讞讬讬讘, because after all, it came from the 诪讻讛. Then the 讙诪专讗 says, 诪讗讬 讙专讙讜转谞讬, what is 讙专讙讜转谞讬? 讗诪专 讗讘讬讬, 谞住转专讞讬住转讗, that means, as 专砖状讬 explains, dead flesh. Then the 讙诪专讗 asks, 诪讗讬 讗住讜转讬讛, what is the cure, how can you cure this? And the 讙诪专讗 says, 注诇讜讛 讜拽讬专讗 讜拽讬诇讘讗, which means by aloes, wax, and resin. Then the 讙诪专讗 continues, 讜讗讬 讗诪专 诇讬讛, if the person who caused the damage says to the injured man, 讗住讬讬讱 讗谞讗, I will cure you, instead of hiring a doctor and I should have to pay for him, I myself will cure you, I'm a doctor myself, 讗诪专 诇讬讛, he could say to him, 讚诪讬转 注诇讬 讻讗专讬讛 讗专讘讗, you are to me like a lurking lion. In other words, I don't trust you. 讜讗讬 讗诪专 诇讬讛, and if he says to him, 诪讬讬转讬谞讗 讗住讬讗 讚诪讙谉 讘诪讙谉, I will find a doctor that will do it for free, 讗诪专 诇讬讛, he could say to him, 讗住讬讗 讚诪讙谉 讘诪讙谉 诪讙谉 砖讜讛, that if you have a doctor that's going to do it for free, he's worth nothing. 讜讗讬 讗诪专 诇讬讛, and if he says to him, 诪讬讬转讬谞讗 诇讱 讗住讬讗 专讞讬拽讗, I will bring you a doctor from far away, 讗诪专 诇讬讛, he could say to him, 讗住讬讗 专讞讬拽讗 注讬谞讬讛 注讜讜专讗. A doctor from far away has blind eyes, which means that he's going to come here, and then he's going to leave right away, and he won't be able to take care of me later, so he won't see what's happening to me later, and therefore, I do not want you to do that. 讗讬 讗诪专 诇讬讛 讛讛讜讗, on the other hand, if he, the injured man, says to the other one: 讛讘 诇讬 诇讚讬讚讬, you give me the money, 讜讗谞讗 诪住讬谞讗 谞驻砖讗讬, I'll cure myself, in other words, instead of me getting a doctor, and you to pay to the doctor, you give me the money, and I'll take care of myself, 讗诪专 诇讬讛, he could say to him: 驻砖注转 讘谞驻砖讱, you're going to neglect yourself, 讜砖拽诇转 诪讬谞讗讬 讟驻讬, and you're going to take from me more. You won't take care of yourself, and then the bills will run up more, and then you will come back to me, and I should pay you more. 讗讬 讗诪专 诇讬讛, and if he says to him: 拽讬抓 诇讬 诪讻转, you know what, give me a fixed amount. Let's make up a fixed amount, that's how much you give me, and even if it's not enough, I won't have the right to ask for more. 讗诪专 诇讬讛, he could still say to him: 讻诇 砖讻谉 讚驻砖注转 讘谞驻砖讱, certainly you are going to get and neglect yourself, and then you will remain a crippled for a long time, 讜拽专讜 诇讬 砖讜专 讛诪讝讬拽, and they will call me a damaging ox. It'll all be my fault. So, 转讗拽注, you won't be able to ask for more money, but I will get a bad name, and I don't want that. Then the 讙诪专讗 continues: 转谞讜 专讘谞谉, we learned: 讜讻讜诇诐 诪砖转诇诪讬谉 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽, that all four other things, 爪注专, 专讬驻讜讬, 砖讘转, and 讘讜砖转, are all paid even in a case where you have to pay 谞讝拽 anyway, when you have to pay for the depreciation anyway. The 讙诪专讗 says: 诪谞讗 讛谞讬 诪讬诇讬? How do we know that? 讗诪专 专讘 讝讘讬讚 诪砖诪讬讛 讚专讘讗, Rav Zvid said in the name of Rava: 讗诪专 拽专讗, because the 驻住讜拽 says: 驻爪注 转讞转 驻爪注, a wound for a wound, so this extra 驻住讜拽 comes to teach us: 诇讬转谉 爪注专 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽, to tell us that you have to pay 爪注专 also in a place where you pay 谞讝拽 anyway. And then the 讙诪专讗 asks: 讛讗讬 诪讬讘注讬讗 诇讬讛, don't we need that extra 驻住讜拽 for something else, 诇专讘讜转, to include 砖讜讙讙 讻诪讝讬讚, that if a person causes damage to somebody else, so 砖讜讙讙, if he does it unintentionally, is the same as if he would do it intentionally, 讜讗讜谞住, if it was forced, it has the same 讚讬谉 讻专爪讜谉 as if he would do it willingly? So that is what the 诇讬诪讜讚 驻爪注 转讞转 驻爪注 goes for. So how can you say that the words 驻爪注 转讞转 驻爪注 comes to teach us that you pay for 爪注专 even when you pay 谞讝拽? The 讙诪专讗 says: 讗诐 讻谉, if so, if it would only come to teach that, 谞讻转讜讘 拽专讗, let the 转讜专讛 write: 驻爪注 讘驻爪注, a wound for a wound. 诪讗讬 驻爪注 转讞转 驻爪注? Why does it say an extra word 转讞转, a wound under a wound, instead of a wound? 砖诪注 诪讬谞讛 转专转讬. So now we know both. We know the 诇讬诪讜讚 that it comes to tell us that by an 讗讚诐 砖讜讙讙 is the same as 诪讝讬讚, and 讗讜谞住 like 专爪讜谉, and then it also comes to teach us that you pay for 爪注专 even in the case where you pay for 谞讝拽. 专讘 驻驻讗 诪砖诪讬讛 讚专讘讗 讗诪专, Rav Pappa in the name of Rava said: 讗诪专 拽专讗, the 驻住讜拽 says: 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗. It says twice: 专驻讗 讬专驻讗, twice the word, 诇讬转谉, to teach us, 专讬驻讜讬 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽, that you also have to pay for the 专讬驻讜讬, for the medical expenses, even if you pay for 谞讝拽 separately. But then the 讙诪专讗 asks: 讛讗讬 诪讬讘注讬讗 诇讬讛 诇讻讚转谞讗 讚讘讬 专讘讬 讬砖诪注讗诇? Don't we need this 诇讬诪讜讚 from this double word 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗 to teach us what 专讘讬 讬砖诪注讗诇 said? 讚转谞讗 讚讘讬 专讘讬 讬砖诪注讗诇, didn't we learn in the 讬砖讬讘讛 of 专讘讬 讬砖诪注讗诇: 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗, the reason the 转讜专讛 says double, 诪讻讗谉, from here we see 砖谞讬转谞讛 专砖讜转 诇专讜驻讗 诇专驻讗讜转, that a doctor has the right to cure? And the 讙诪专讗 answers: 讗诐 讻谉, if so, if it would only come to teach us this, 谞讻转讜讘 拽专讗 讜专讜驻讗 讬专驻讗. The 转讜专讛 should have said the doctor should cure him, so we would know that the doctor has a right to cure. Why does it say 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗? 砖诪注 诪讬谞讛, that comes to teach us 诇讬转谉 专讬驻讜讬 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽, that you have to pay for 专讬驻讜讬 even in a case where you pay for 谞讝拽. But then the 讙诪专讗 asks: 讜讗讻转讬 诪讬讘注讬讗 诇讬讛 诇讻讚讗诪专谉, but still don't we need this 驻住讜拽 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗 to teach us the 讚讬谉 that we mentioned before, 诇诪讬砖谞讗 讘拽专讗 讘专讬驻讜讬, that the 转讜专讛 tells us a double 讚讬谉 concerning curing, that even if things grew on it, and because of that, later, it opened up, if it came because of the 诪讻讛 he is still responsible to pay. And as we said before, we learned that out from the double expression of 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗? And the 讙诪专讗 says: 讗诐 讻谉, if so, if it would only come for that, 诇讬诪讗 拽专讗, let the 转讜专讛 say: 讗讜 专驻讜讬 专驻讜讬, the 转讜专讛 should say twice the same word, 专驻讜讬 专驻讜讬, 讗讜 讬专驻讗 讬专驻讗, or twice the same word, 讬专驻讗 讬专驻讗. 诪讗讬 讜专驻讗 讬专驻讗? The 转讜专讛 says two different words, 砖诪注 诪讬谞讛, so that comes to teach us also this 讚讬谉: 诇讬转谉 专讬驻讜讬 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽, that you have to pay for 专讬驻讜讬 in a case of 谞讝拽. So from this 驻住讜拽 now we know all three 讚讬谞讬诐: we know that the 转讜专讛 gave 专砖讜转 for a doctor to cure; we know the other 讚讬谉, that if it 讛注诇讛 爪诪讞讬诐 诪讞诪转 讛诪讻讛, you still have to pay; and also this 讚讬谉, that even if you pay for 谞讝拽, you also have to pay for the 专讬驻讜讬. Then the 讙诪专讗 says: 诪讻诇诇, from here we see, 讚诪砖讻讞转 诇讛讜 砖诇讗 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽, that it's possible to have all these four things in a case where you don't have to pay for 谞讝拽, for the damage. Since we have to learn out specially that even if you pay for the 谞讝拽, you must pay for these four things, obviously there's a possibility to pay for these four things without paying for 谞讝拽. The 讙诪专讗 asks: 砖诇讗 讘诪拽讜诐 谞讝拽 讛讬讻讬 诪砖讻讞转 诇讛讜? How can you have to pay for these four things without having to pay for 谞讝拽? The 讙诪专讗 explains, 爪注专 讻讚拽转谞讬, 爪注专 for pain, as we learned in the 诪砖谞讛. It said in the 诪砖谞讛, 爪注专, how would you have to pay for pain? 讻讜讜讗讜 讘砖驻讜讚 讗讜 讘诪住诪专, he burned him with a burning spear or with a nail, 讜讗驻讬诇讜 注诇 爪驻讜专谞讜, even on the nail of the person, 诪拽讜诐 砖讗讬谞讜 注讜砖讛 讞讘讜专讛, in a place where you don't cause a wound. So

Pain without damage (爪注专) explained

here there is 爪注专, and there is no 谞讝拽. 专讬驻讜讬, what is the case of paying for medical expenses without causing a 谞讝拽? 讚讛讜讛 讻讗讬讘 诇讬讛 诪讻转讗. Something hurt him from before. 讜住诇讬拽, and it was curing, healing. 讜讗转讗 讜讬讛讬讘 诇讬讛 住诪讗 讞专讬驻讗, came a person and put some drugs on it, some sharp drugs, 讜讗讞讜讜专讬讛 诇讘砖专讬讛, and it caused his skin to become white. 讜爪专讬讱 诇诪讬转讘 诇讬讛 住诪讗 诇讗谞拽讜讟讬讛 讙讜讜谞讬 讚讘砖专讬讛. So you need another drug to return the color of the skin. So here you have to cure him, but there was no 谞讝拽 done. All he did was, he changed the color of the skin. So now you have to pay for medical expenses of getting the color back, but there is no 谞讝拽. 砖讘转, what is the case of having to pay for lost time? 讚讞讘砖讛 讘讗讬谞讚专讜谞讗. If he locked someone up in a room. So then there is no damage done, but nevertheless there was lost time. And 讘讜砖转, when you have to pay for embarrassment without 谞讝拽, 讚专拽 诇讬讛 讘讗驻讬讛, for instance if he spit in his face. Then the 讙诪专讗 continues, we learned in the 诪砖谞讛, 砖讘转, how do you estimate the loss of time?

Estimating loss of time via cucumber鈥憌atch analogy

专讜讗讬谉 讗讜转讜 讻讗讬诇讜 讛讜讗 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉. We look at him as if during all that time he couldn't work, he would have watched a field of cucumbers, and whatever money he would have got paid for that job, so then we have to pay him that much. The 讙诪专讗 says, 转谞讜 专讘谞谉, and the 专讘谞谉 learned, 砖讘转, when it comes to pay for lost time, 专讜讗讬谉 讗讜转讜 讻讗讬诇讜 讛讜讗 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉, so we look at him as if he would have watched cucumbers, and that's how much he gets. 讜讗诐 转讗诪专, but you might say, 诇拽转讛 诪讬讚转 讛讚讬谉, that the 讚讬谉 suffers. In other words, it is not fair, because 讚讗讬 诪讬转驻讞 讛讗讬 讙讘专讗, if this person would be cured, 诇讗讜 讗讙专讗 讚砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉 讛讜讛 砖拽讬诇, he wouldn't have taken a salary for watching cucumbers. He would have done a better job. 讗诇讗 讚诇讬 讚讚讜讜诇讗, he might have carried water in buckets, 讜砖拽讬诇 讗讙专讗, he would take a bigger salary. 讗讬 谞诪讬 讗讝讬诇 讘砖诇讬讞, he might become an agent, a messenger, 讜砖拽讬诇 讗讙专讗, he would take a higher salary. Why estimate in the lowest salary, saying that we look as if he would have watched cucumbers, and that's the amount of money you give him? But the answer is, 诪讬讚转 讛讚讬谉 诇讗 诇拽转讛, the justice does not suffer. Because 砖讻讘专 谞转谉 诇讜 讚诪讬 讬讚讜 讜讚诪讬 专讙诇讜, because he already paid him for the worth of his hand or for his foot. Since you have to pay for 砖讘转 in addition to the 谞讝拽, so he already paid him for the hand and for the foot. So we look at him as if he already has no hand and foot, and that so to speak was bought by the person who paid for him. So now that he has no hand or no foot, so now we pay him according to the type of job he could have done without a hand or without a foot. And therefore we estimate how much he would have been paid for a job done under these conditions, and that's how much we give him for his 砖讘转. Then the 讙诪专讗 says,

Rava鈥檚 rulings on hand and foot injuries

讗诪专 专讘讗, 专讘讗 said, 拽讟注 讗转 讬讚讜, if he chopped off his hand, 谞讜转谉 诇讜 讚诪讬 讬讚讜, then you pay him for the value of his hand, 讜砖讘转, when it comes to pay for lost time, 专讜讗讬谉 讗讜转讜 讻讗讬诇讜 讛讜讗 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉, so you see as if he would have been able to watch cucumbers, and that's how much you get paid for that loss of loss of time. Because even without a hand he still could stand and watch a field of cucumbers. So that's what he could have done, and that's how much we pay him. 砖讬讘专 讗转 专讙诇讜, but if he broke his foot, 谞讜转谉 诇讜 讚诪讬 专讙诇讜, you pay him for the value of the foot, 讜砖讘转, how much do you pay him for loss of time? 专讜讗讬谉 讗讜转讜 讻讗讬诇讜 砖讜诪专 讗转 讛驻转讞. We see as if he could have watched the door. Here already, he couldn't even watch a field of cucumbers, because for that you have to have feet to be able to walk around back and forth to see that no one enters. But since he knocked off his foot, he broke his foot, so he can't even do that. So here you have to see how much he would have gotten paid if he would have been standing in one place and watch the door, and that's how much you give him. 住讬诪讗 讗转 注讬谞讜, if he blinded him in his eye, 谞讜转谉 诇讜 讚诪讬 注讬谞讜, so you pay him for the value of the eye, 讜砖讘转, and concerning the loss of time, 专讜讗讬谉 讗讜转讜 讻讗讬诇讜 讛讜讗 讟讜讞谉 讘专讬讞讬诐, as if he would have gave him a job of having him grind in a mill, because that you could do even without seeing. 讞讬专砖讜, if you made him deaf, 谞讜转谉 诇讜 讚诪讬 讻讜诇讜, then you're paying for the whole value of the person. Since if a person is deaf he can't do anything, so then this person has no value whatsoever now, so therefore he has to pay him for the value of the whole person.

Tosafot resolves the Rava vs. Gemara clash

转讜住驻讜转 ask the 拽砖讬讗, it seems like there's a contradiction between what 专讘讗 said and what the 讙诪专讗 said before. 专讘讗 said that without a foot you cannot even be a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉, you can't even watch a cucumber field, but in the 讙诪专讗 before it said in the 讘专讬讬转讗 that if he chopped off his hand or he cut off his foot, you pay him 砖讘转 as if he would have been watching a cucumber field, is 诪砖诪注 that even without a foot he still could watch a cucumber field. So first 转讜住驻讜转 says that when the 讘专讬讬转讗 said before that you pay him as if he would have been a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉, that only refers to the case of the hand, not to the case of the foot. Another 转讬专讜抓 转讜住驻讜转 says that in the 讙诪专讗, it means that he chopped off both of his feet. So then he can't even walk around as a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉. But in the 讘专讬讬转讗, when it said that even if he doesn't have a foot, he still could be a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉, that is a case where he still has one foot. And a 专讗讬讛 转讜住驻讜转 brings that in the case of 专讘讗 we're talking that he doesn't have both feet, is because the other case was when he blinded in his eyes, and there we say he can't even watch the door, and therefore he picks another type of job that he could do. But that only means if he made him blind in both eyes. Because if he made him blind only in one eye, he still could do all these different things. So it must be that he made him blind in both eyes. So too when he says that without a foot he can't be a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉, it means that if he doesn't have both feet. And 转讜住驻讜转 brings a 专讗讬讛 in 转讜住驻转讗 that says that if a person became limp, that he's only walking on one foot, we still judge the 砖讘转 that he would have been a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉. So we see that with one foot you still could be a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉. So therefore we must say that when 专讘讗 says that without a foot he can't be a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉, that means if you don't have both feet. And then 转讜住驻讜转 says something else, that if for instance the person was a 诪诇诪讚 转讬谞讜拽讜转, he was a teacher, we don't say that we give him based on the salary of a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉. Or in the case of a person who was an expert, he would cut diamonds, etc., we also don't say that we only give him like a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉, or in a case where he doesn't have the feet we give him like a 砖讜诪专 讛驻转讞, because in that case it is 诇讜拽讛 诪讬讚转 讛讚讬谉. The 讚讬谉, the justice does suffer. So what it means here, 住转诐 people who are not special 讘注诇讬 讗讜诪谞讜转, so there we say that instead of the job that he actually did, he could have been a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉. But if a person did a very, very important job and got paid a lot of money, then we give him more than just for a 砖讜诪专 拽讬砖讜讗讬谉. Then the 讙诪专讗

Rava鈥檚 dilemma: evaluating multiple injuries separately

continues, 讘注讬 专讘讗, 专讘讗 asked in a 讘注讬讗, asked a question: 拽讬讟注讛 诇讬讚讜 讜诇讗 讗诪讚讜讛, what happens if he knocked off his hand and the 讘讬转 讚讬谉 didn't evaluate yet how much he has to pay him for 爪注专, 专讬驻讜讬, 砖讘转, and 讘讜砖转, for everything? And then 砖讬讘专讛 诇专讙诇讜, he also broke his foot, 讜诇讗 讗诪讚讜讛, and 讘讬转 讚讬谉 didn't evaluate yet. 住讬诪讗 讗转 注讬谞讜 讜诇讗 讗诪讚讜讛, and then he blinded his eye, and still 讘讬转 讚讬谉 didn't evaluate yet. 讜诇讘住讜祝 讞讬专砖讜, and at the end he made him deaf, where 专讘讗 himself said before the 讚讬谉 is that you pay for the whole person, 诪讗讬 讛讜讗, what is the 讚讬谉? 诪讬 讗诪专讬谞谉, and do we say 讻讬讜讜谉 讚诇讗 讗诪讚讜讛, since they didn't estimate it in between after every occurrence, 讚讘讞讚讗 讗讜诪讚谞讗 住讙讬讗 诇讬讛, that one estimation at the end is enough, 讜讬讛讬讘 诇讬讛 讚诪讬 讻讜诇讬讛 讘讞讚讗 讛讚讚讬, and he pays him for making him deaf for the whole person and he pays him for everything together? 讗讜 讚诇诪讗, or maybe 讞讚讗 讜讞讚讗 讗诪讚讬谞谉, we estimate each one separately, we now estimate each one separately from before, 讜讬讛讘讬谞谉 诇讬讛, and we give him? Now one thing is for sure, that there is no 砖讗诇讛 that for 谞讝拽 you don't have to give separately, because it'll come out for the same amount anyway. Because since at the end you pay for the whole person, so automatically you include his hand and his foot. Even if you would estimate him separately, as soon as you estimate for instance how much the value of his hand is and that's how much you would have to pay him, automatically from that point and on, the person is worth less with that amount. And then when you evaluate separately his foot, he gets even less, and then his eye gets even less, so at the end he's only worth a little bit. So whether you estimate it all separately or altogether is the same thing, so there is no question. But the 谞驻拽讗 诪讬谞讛, what is the question concerning, what is the difference? 讚讘注讬 诇诪讬转讘 诇讬讛 爪注专 讜讘讜砖转 讚讻诇 讞讚讗 讜讞讚讗, whether he has to pay him for the pain and for the embarrassment of each occurrence separately. 谞讛讬, that is true, 讚谞讝拽 讜专讬驻讜讬 讜砖讘转 讚讻诇 讞讚讗 讜讞讚讗 诇讗 讬讛讘讬谞谉 诇讬讛, for the 谞讝拽, for the damage, and for the medical expenses, and for the loss of time, he definitely doesn't have to pay him for each occurrence separately. Why? 讚讻讬讜讜谉 讚拽讗 讬讛讬讘 诇讬讛 讚诪讬 讻讜诇讬讛, since at the end he has to pay him the value of the whole person, 讻诪讗谉 讚拽讟诇讬讛 讚诪讬, it's as if he killed him. He bought him completely. 讜讛讗 讬讛讬讘 诇讬讛 讚诪讬 讻讜诇讬讛, and he paid him for the whole person, so therefore doesn't have to pay him anymore. So for the 谞讝拽, as we said before, definitely not, because it's all the same. Also for the 专讬驻讜讬 not, because he didn't cure him in between. For the 砖讘转 not, for not working not, because since he is now his 注讘讚. So the fact that he didn't work doesn't matter because he belongs to him completely. But the

Do we pay pain and embarrassment each time?

question is 爪注专 讜讘讜砖转. 诪讬讛讗 讚讻诇 讞讚讗 讜讞讚讗 讬讛讬讘, for the pain and for the embarrassment, he does give him for each occurrence separately, 讚讛讗 讛讜讛 诇讬讛 爪注专 讜讘讜砖转, because after all he did have pain and embarrassment every time separately? Or doesn't he give him, because now that he pays him for the whole thing, he belongs to him and everything is included. And he continues, 讜讗诐 转诪爪讬 诇讜诪专, and if you're going to answer this question and come to a conclusion that 讻讬讜谉 讚诇讗 讗诪讚讜讛, since they did not evaluate him in between, 讻讬讛讬讘 诇讬讛 讚诪讬 讻讜诇讛讜 讘讛讚讗 讛讚讚讬, so therefore at the end when he pays him for the whole person, so everything is included and he does not have to pay him separately for each occurrence for the 爪注专 and the 讘讜砖转, so I have another question, he says. 讗诪讚讜讛 诪讗讬, what would be the 讚讬谉 if they did evaluate him in between, but he still didn't pay for it? After he broke his hand, they evaluated how much he owes him, but he didn't pay it. Then he broke his foot, and they evaluated that, and he didn't pay him yet. Then he blinded him with his eye, and they evaluated that, and he didn't pay him. And then he made him deaf, and now he has to pay him for the whole thing. So now the question is: 诪讬 讗诪专讬谞谉, do we say, 讻讬讜谉 讚讗诪讚讜讛 讞讚讗 讞讚讗 讘注讬 诇诪讬转讘 诇讬讛, since they evaluated it each time separately, so he has to pay him for each time separately? 讗讜 讚讬诇诪讗, or maybe, 讻讬讜谉 讚诇讗 砖诇讬诐, that he didn't pay him yet in between, 讬讛讬讘 诇讬讛 讚诪讬 讻讜诇讬, so he pays him for the whole person and doesn't have to pay him anymore? And the 讙诪专讗 says, 转讬拽讜, this question remains without an answer. But this is only the way 专砖状讬 learns the 驻砖讟 in the 讙诪专讗's 讗讬讘注讬讗. But 转讜住驻讜转 says that 诪讬诇讗 谞讝拽 and 砖讘转, we understand why you shouldn't give it. It's all included in the amount that he's going to pay at the end. Since at the end he will pay for the whole person, so the value of each part is included. And also, the fact that he wasn't able to work during that time is also included, since he is like his 注讘讚. But for the medical expenses, why is it so simple that that should be included in the money that he will pay for the person at the end? Why is that more simple than 爪注专 and 讘讜砖转? And therefore 转讜住驻讜转 says that you should be 讙讜专住 专讬驻讜讬 together with 爪注专 and 讘讜砖转, and not together with 谞讝拽 and 砖讘转. In other words, when the 讙诪专讗 says that there is a 砖讗诇讛 concerning 爪注专 and 讘讜砖转, really the 讙诪专讗 砖讗诇讛 is also concerning 专讬驻讜讬, not like 专砖状讬. And then 转讜住驻讜转 asks: But still, what is the 讙诪专讗 砖讗诇讛? Why should he become 驻讟讜专 for paying for 专讬驻讜讬, 爪注专, and 讘讜砖转? Because at the end, he made him deaf and he will have to pay for the whole thing. Why is this different? A person cut off someone else's hand, that even though he has to pay for the 谞讝拽, he has to pay for the depreciation, which is the worth of his hand, nevertheless, he has to pay for his medical expenses. And he has to pay for the 爪注专, for the pain, and for the 讘讜砖转. And we don't say since he pays for the whole hand, so now that's his, and therefore, nothing else has to be paid for. The same thing here. Even though he pays for the complete person, why shouldn't he still have to pay for the 爪注专 and for the 专讬驻讜讬 and for the 讘讜砖转? And another 拽砖讬讗 转讜住驻讜转 says, that what happens if a person injures a 讞专砖? A person injures a deaf person. Do we say he's 驻讟讜专 from 专讬驻讜讬, 爪注专, and 讘讜砖转? This deaf person still has 爪注专, 专讬驻讜讬, and 讘讜砖转. So you still would have to pay. So here, too, even though he made him deaf, still he should have to pay for the 爪注专, 专讬驻讜讬, and 讘讜砖转. And therefore 转讜住驻讜转 says the 驻砖讟 is different. That that is clear that you do have to pay for the 爪注专 and for the 讘讜砖转 and for the 专讬驻讜讬 for each separate occurrence. The whole 砖讗诇讛 of the 讙诪专讗 is, for instance, if he knocks off his hand on Sunday, and they didn't evaluate how much he has to pay. Then on Monday, he broke his foot, and they didn't evaluate. On Tuesday, he made him deaf. So do we say that we consider it as if it was all done together in one day, and we evaluate it all together, or do we say since these occurrences happened on different days, so we evaluate the 专讬驻讜讬, 爪注专, and 讘讜砖转 from each day separately? And that 砖讗诇讛 would only be in a case where if you evaluate it all together, it won't be the same amount of money as if you evaluate it separately. By doing it separately, it'll add up to more money. And that is the 砖讗诇讛: Do we look at it all as one, and therefore you would pay the smaller amount of money, or do we look at it all as if they all happened together, and you only pay the lesser amount of money? And the 诪住拽谞讗 of the 讙诪专讗 is 转讬拽讜. Now according to the 专诪讘状诐 who learns that whenever the 讙诪专讗 has two 讘注讬讜转, and the second 讘注讬讗 is written in the form of 讜讗诐 转诪爪讬 诇讜诪专 of the first, that even if you're going to answer the first so-and-so, then I have a second one, so the 专诪讘状诐 learns that the way the 讙诪专讗 says the 讜讗诐 转诪爪讬 诇讜诪专, that is the answer to the first one, that is the 讛诇讻讛. And then the second one is the one that remains with a 转讬拽讜. So therefore in this case according to the 专诪讘状诐, the answer to the first question would be that you don't have to pay for each one separately, but you pay all together after he made him deaf, as the 讙诪专讗 says the 讜讗诐 转诪爪讬 诇讜诪专 讻讬讜谉 讚诇讗 讗诪讚讜讛 讻讬讛讬讘 诇讬讛 讚诪讬 讻讜诇讛讜 讘讛讚讗 讛讚讚讬. And concerning the second question, it would remain with a 转讬拽讜 without an answer.

← PREVIOUS
Bava Kamma 84
NEXT →
Bava Kamma 86
NOW PLAYING Choose a shiur to begin Rabbi Yehuda Leib Schapiro
0:00
0:00