here we have on דף ס\"ה עמוד א', Gemara Bava Kamma. Let's go through the whole the whole shtikel Gemara here in order to get the whole המשך later on. Although in the beginning the whole המשך is not נוגע, but we'll go through the Gemara. אמר רב, קרן כעין שגנב, תשלומי כפל ותשלומי ארבעה וחמשה כשעת העמדה בדין. That means that if someone steals something, and there's a din that if you catch him and there are עדים that he stole, he has to pay kefel. He has to pay not only the keren, not only the principal as much as it was worth, he also has to pay double, extra, one more time. Also if it happens to be an ox or a sheep, then and he שחט'ד it later on, or he sold it, you have to pay four for the sheep and five for the ox. What happens if there was a change in price between the time when he stole it לגבי the time when he's going to pay, כשעת העמדה בדין, when he's taken to Beit Din and Beit Din pask'ns? So Rav says like this: the keren, the principal, you always have to pay כעין שגנב, as it was price, as it was at the time when it was stolen. תשלומי כפל ותשלומי ארבעה וחמשה, when you pay the double, you pay the four or five, that you will pay according to the price כשעת העמדה בדין, as it was at the time when the Beit Din pask'ns. Then the Gemara asks him kushya, then the Gemara asks another kushya. אמר רבא, the Gemara says that Rava said a din that seems to be contradicting Rav. And the Gemara doesn't like, even though Rav is an amora and Rava is an amora, so they could argue, but usually we try to avoid that unless we find a machloket. So the Gemara says it seems like Rav and Rava are arguing and we'd rather not. What did Rava say?

אמר רבא, רבא said, האי מאן דגזל חביתא דחמרא מחבריה, if someone stole a barrel of wine from his friend, מעיקרא שויא זוזא ולבסוף ולבסוף שויא ד' zuzi, at first it was worth, when he stole it was worth one zuz. At the end, it was worth four zuz. Now the din is like this: תברה או שתייה, if he broke it when it was worth four זוז, or he drank it, משלם ד' זוזי, you will pay four. Now here we're talking about the קרן, cuz actually he mentions האי מאן דגזל, someone who stole, גזילה you don't pay כפל בכלל, you only pay כפל for גניבה. So he's only talking about paying the קרן, the principal. So he says if he drank it up or he broke it while it was worth four, you pay four. איתבר ממילא, if it broke by itself, משלם זוזא, you only pay one זוז. So here we see that if you broke it, you would pay the קרן as it was worth at the end. So this is a kushya on Rav, because Rav said that the principal you always pay like it was in the time of the גניבה, even if it was, something happened to it, because he's talking in a case where you shechted it, even if you shechted it. So if you shechted it, so the principal part of it you'll pay like it was in the beginning. The extra that you pay, the extra for the four or five, which means three and four, you'll pay like later, but the קרן you'll pay like before, even though he broke it, he killed it. So there's a contradiction between Rav and Rava. But the Gemara says, אמר לך, I'll tell you, כי קאמר רב, כגון דמעיקרא שויא ד' ולבסוף שויא זוזא. Rav was only talking in a case if it went down in price, not if it went up. When went down in price, then קרן כעין שגנב, תשלומי כפל ותשלומי ארבעה וחמשה כשעת העמדה בדין, but the קרן you will pay like before. He's trying to say that the קרן you always pay the higher price. So if it went down in price, it was first worth four, then it went down, the קרן, the principal you still will pay like it was before. But if it went up in price, he agrees takeh that if you broke it, you will pay the קרן like it was, like the, it is later. This is the Gemara.

Comes the Rosh here, and the Rosh says like this: when the Gemara says that כפל and ד' וה' you will pay כשעת העמדה בדין, you will pay at the time of the Beit Din, so the Gemara puts כפל, which is the double that you pay for stealing, or if you שחט'ד it and sold or sold it, you pay four or five, both the Gemara says you pay כשעת העמדה בדין. But he says I want to tell you that it doesn't mean that they're both exactly alike. Both of them are are equal that you don't pay as it was in the beginning, if price changed you don't pay like it was in the beginning, but they both don't mean the same thing, and he says like this. No, before, let's go a step before that. He gives a sevara first. Gives a sevara. What is the sevara? Why takeh the קרן will be like at the time of the גניבה and the כפל and ד' וה' will be like later? So he says a very simple sevara. סברא הוא, the קרן is חייב בשעת גניבה. When do you become chayav to pay the קרן? When you stole it. The moment you took it, you stole it, חייב קרן. So whatever it was worth then, That's what you owe. אבל כפל וארבעה וחמישה לא מיחייב עד שעת העמדה בדין. You don't become chayav till the time when בית דין פסקנס, why? דאי מודה מיפטר. Because we know a din that by קנס, anything that's a fine, if you are מודה, if you admit and tell בית דין, then you don't have to pay the fine. That means that when do you owe a fine? Only if בית דין tells you. If if you don't, if you admit before, not. So till then you're not chayav. So it comes out that the כפל and the ד' וה', which is a קנס, you don't become chayav till later. And that's why you pay according to the price of later, because that's when you became chayav. Then he says, but I want to tell you that בשעת העמדה בדין the כפל, כמשמעותו. When the Gemara says that כפל you pay like at the time of of of of the din, it means פשוט כמשמעותו, כשוויו עתה כשיגמר הדין, as it's worth the time when the din is פסקד. אבל לענין ארבעה וחמישה, but when you pay ארבעה וחמישה, it doesn't mean that. It's שמין כמה היה שווה בשעת טביחה ומכירה. It means how much it was worth, not at the time of the גניבה, but how much it was worth at the time when you שחטד it. Why? דההיא שעתא דקא מחייב, because you become a chayav for שחטינג it, so what it was worth at that time. And therefore he says if נתייקרה קודם העמדה בדין, let's say after you שחטד it, till בית דין פסקנד, it went up in price, לא משלם כהשתא, you will not pay like time of the Bet Din. You will pay like the time of טביחה ומכירה. And then he says, and why? דהשתא לאו מידי קעביד, because now when בית דין פסקנד, you are not doing anything. וכן אם הוזל, let's say it became cheaper from the time when you שחטד it till the time of בית דין פסקנינג, אזלינן בתר, even the טביחה ומכירה, you go to time of טביחה ומכירה. This is the Rosh. Now,

many מפרשים, the Pilpula Charifta, the Drisha, the Yam Shel Shlomo, the Pnei Yehoshua, everyone says that the Rosh contradicts himself from one part to another, mamash an open contradiction. The Rosh says that what is the reason why כפל and ד' וה' you pay like העמדה בדין? Because till העמדה בדין you are not chayav, because you could always admit. Then what does he say? That ד' וה' you pay like the time of טביחה ומכירה. The דין is that after you שחטד it, if you would come to admit, you'd be patur. So when do you become חייב ד' וה'? By העמדה בדין. So why is that different than כפל? Based on his whole הסברה before, had he not given his ביאור before, it was like learning from a פסוק is one thing. He gives a ביאור, and he says that the reason why you're not חייב בשעת גניבה כפל וד' וה' but בשעת העמדה בדין, because you are chayav only then. What's the re'ayah you don't become chayav till העמדה בדין? Because it's kenas and you would be patur if you would be modeh, which is true by טביחה ומכירה also. So why does he say later on, a minute later, he says that טביחה ומכירה, ד' וה' you're chayav for the time of טביחה ומכירה, not for the time of העמדה בדין. But let's ask the Rosh, didn't you just say that you're not chayav till העמדה בדין? So you should be chayav according to העמדה בדין. Also, he says, why takeh are you not chayav at the time of העמדה בדין, but טביחה ומכירה? He says because at the time of העמדה בדין, he didn't do anything. What did he do? Nothing. He is chayav for what he did, the טביחה ומכירה. So that's why you're chayav as it was time of טביחה ומכירה. Let's ask the Rosh, why is that by geneivah? Why are you chayav כפל? For stealing! At the time of העמדה בדין, you didn't do anything. So why are you chayav like the time of העמדה בדין? You should be chayav for the time you did it. You have to be chayav according to the price that it had at the time you did the פעולה for which you are chayav. So here you're chayav for טביחה ומכירה, so you're chayav according to the value the time of טביחה ומכירה. Here you're chayav כפל for the geneivah, you should be chayav according to the time of the geneivah. Why? Because by העמדה בדין you didn't do anything. So this seems to contradict. Before he said that it depends on the time when you become chayav, not at the time you did it. And then he

turns around and he says, טביחה ומכירה, you're חייב ד' וה' טביחה ומכירה because of that he didn't do anything. So what is the vort? Comes the the Pilpula Charifta here and the Drisha in in the on the Tur, well, in סימן שנ\"ד. Look at the Tur, I see you have it in hand. And the the Drisha here ask the she'elah, and he says it's basically based on the pasuk. Now it's hard to put his words into the Rosh himself, but at least he's מסביר the sevara.