כפל בשעת העמדה בדין. In other words, בשעת העמדה בדין is because up, if you would have admitted, right, then you wouldn't have payed כפל. Up until the point בשעת העמדה בדין, you could have admitted. So up until that The same thing with ד' וה'. What? ד' וה' is the same thing. I understand, that was his In other words, that's the kashya that we asked in the beginning. There's a סתירה here, because the same thing with the ד' וה', it's also a קנס, and you're modeh, you're patur. But I'm saying that that if the reason by כפל is not תלוי on on on a פועל של שחיטה, and it wouldn't be a she'eilah on the whole פרשה of פועל של שחיטה. In other words, if if the reason that you're חייב כפל בשעת העמדה בדין because up until that point You're not חייב קנס, so And at this point, you could come chayav up until that point you could have admitted. And and and right at that moment before is when it's worth that much. So the so the, so the שעת הגניבה, right, you weren't chayav the כפל. It's up until that point. Okay, right. I I

said there's an original she'eilah here. You're saying that's the original she'eilah. That's the she'eilah we asked on the Rosh. Lichorah, what's the difference between כפל and ד' וה'? and ד' וה'. I'm asking a she'eilah then on the on a פועל של שחיטה. I'm saying if if if this is the, if this, why can't you say this is the reason that you're חייב כפל? בשעת העמדה בדין. Why you're חייב בשעת העמדה בדין? Because up until that point you could have admitted. That's what the Rosh says, and Up until that point you could have admitted, right? So so the whole So you're not chayav till then, okay. We know that. You're not chayav till then. And at this point Now you become chayav. Right. That's why you're chayav, that's that's what he says. That's why you're חייב בשעת העמדה בדין. That's what the Rosh says. So in the end I ask, so who cares if that you're chayav now, but you're chayav for what? You become chayav now for the time of the geneivah. Right. So why do you have to go according to the price of now? Because it goes by the price of now, because up until then you could have admitted. And that's why this is, it's So, so takeh you weren't chayav till now, but now you become chayav for what? That's what I'm saying. You're chayav for now. For what you did before! It was done lemafre'a, but at this So lemafre'a, gut, nu, so you're chayav for what happened then, and then it was worth less. But are you chayav for the geneivah or are you Sure you're chayav for the geneivah! What, you're chayav for the, for being caught? Some people's thinking No, or are you chayav for not admitting? No, no, you're not chayav for That's what I'm

saying. No! You're not chayav for not admitting. Had you admitted, you'd be patur. But you're chayav for not admitting? There's no, there's no chiyuv to admit you did something wrong? A chiyuv to return it, obviously! Stolen, you have to return it. Okay. But up until the point of העמדה בדין you stole something. Yeah. Are you chayav to admit that you did it? Sure you're chayav.