Kesubos 21b — Iyun
Shevuas HaEidus and a Disqualified Witness
Part of Kesubos (Iyun)
A Shevuos sugya on the oath of testimony (shevuas ha'eidus) and why a rabbinic disqualification from testifying applies only to the person himself, not to the testimony's underlying truth.
Audio Transcript
שבועת העדות, ודאי שבועת עדות. שבועת העדות doesn't apply to פסולים מדרבנן, because there's no mah she'ein kein by Kiddushin, Kiddushin we don't care about the birur. Kiddushin is the metziut is theirs. So, by Kiddushin, since it's not birur, so we don't care that you can't have the birur. לפועל, they're only פסול מדרבנן, מדאורייתא they're עדים. That's what he says here. So, I'm saying the deeper pshat in what the Rebbe means, but if they're פסול מדרבנן, that פסול didn't change their status as being עדות. They're עדים. That's all. By דרבנן, they remain עדים. Just Yeah, because דרבנן only go on the gavra, that means that the beit din or whoever cannot listen to them. But they can't change the status of the people. When you're פסול מדאורייתא, you are not an עד. But if you're פסול מדרבנן, you're still an עד, and since you're still an עד, and they gave Kiddushin in front of you, he gave Kiddushin in front of עדים. Mah she'ein kein by שבועת העדות, where there is נוגע the birur, so even by פסולי מדרבנן, there is no birur. The רבנן said, \"Don't listen,\" so you can't listen. So, whatever, so that's the whole chiluk here. The chiluk is based on this klal of the
רבנן only goes on the gavra, not on the cheftza, so you're not changing your status. מה שאין כן דאורייתא goes on both. I'm saying it can be here also, not in the פסול, but in the positive part. When you're an עד by a דין דאורייתא, you are an עד. When your whole עדות is in a דין דרבנן, you're not an עד, it's the גברא. The בית דין has to listen to you, and therefore, over there, certainly עד נעשה דיין. מה שאין כן בדאורייתא, אין עד נעשה דיין. So, the עדות is not like a, from the חפצא The עדות itself is a from the חפצא. The person is the חפצא in this case, the person is the חפצא. He is the object which Why why can't you say the עדות I'm saying, why can't you say the עדות is the חפצא? And the the גברא who who we're worried about the דרבנן. In a case of דרבנן, the חפצא is the the עדות is the חפצא. What can you do with it? Say it. Well If it if it absorbed if it penetrated the חפצא or not, what's the what would penetrate עדות? A person. so we would have the If they if they was not a valid עדות, it could become it's it's his testimony that's in court. Isn't that so, therefore, But we can't accept his testimony, in both ways, whether דאורייתא דרבנן, we can't accept it. say going back to being a דיין. It's the עדות that we whether or not he is an עד,