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HALACHA, HASHKAFA AND PARENTING

Does a Gentile-Cooked Knife Need Kashering?

Does a Gentile-Cooked Knife Need Kashering?

Part of Halacha, Hashkafa and Parenting · 9:32

A short halacha discussion on whether the prohibition of bishul akum (gentile-cooked food) applies to a servant, and the Rebbe's reasoning for the practical conclusion.

Audio Transcript
Rebbe identifies knife not a kashrus issue

Yeah. So, the Rebbe learns that this was not a problem of kashrus. Normally you learn the Gemara, I don't, I get it. What was it? Was that treifa knife? Why did he stick it into the ground? Because it was a because he was using it, it was a treifa, yeah, a goy's knife, a treifa knife, a goy's knife. The Rebbe learned that this knife was not meat, was not treifa, from treifa food, from like treifa meat, treifa things. But it would have to be made by a Yid. It says 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐. No, it wasn't used for anything. It's never used. So the Rebbe says it's doesn't make sense that the king should have the same knife they use for for meat, they use for fruit, so probably used for fruit and used... So the problem was, they used for... So, therefore, the problem was that it wasn't for treifot like meat things, it was the problem of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐. That's what the Rebbe learned. Okay. Because if you go according to that sevara of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐, the Rebbe explains what was the sevara why he felt that Bava ben Buta could continue to use it. Could eat it without, because of the fact that he wasn't And he said, \"Because what you did last night.\" So, that's not just stam because I saw you, I heard, or I saw that you did the aveirah, so probably you're not careful in this either. That's not what it means. The shaila was, was he

Halachic status of the eved (servant)

讟讗拽注 讗住讜专 in what he did the night before? He wasn't assur. He wasn't assur, he was an eved. Yeah, he was an eved, he wasn't, he was a eved, he wasn't a Yid. Wasn't a Yid, yes. So, he was allowed to. So, then what did he mean to say? He says it's not like this. If even though an eved I'm just saying by heart from what I remember the 转讜讻谉. Even though an eved has to if an eved of a of a Yid has to keep kosher, because he has to 诪讞讬讬讘 讘诪爪讜讜转 like a ishah. He was half released from Huh? He was half released from Yeah, but he still wasn't a Yid. Just didn't get a shtar. But he didn't get a shtar, mimela he still he still wasn't a Yid. So, he didn't have this to act like a Yid. No, he has to, even as an eved he has to act Even a regular 注讘讚 讻谞注谞讬 has to keep the mitzvot 讻诪讜 砖 讻讗讬砖讛. Even if he's but if he's let go, then he Then he becomes a full-fledged Yid. But he didn't get a 砖讟专. So, right, but he wasn't a full-fledged Yid. So, he was half and half. He was half Yeah, but it really So, he did as long as he didn't become a Yid he still has the dinim of an 注讘讚 讻谞注谞讬, and therefore Okay. What? He's kosher, he has to keep. An 注讘讚 讻谞注谞讬 can't eat tereifah. An 注讘讚 讻谞注谞讬 has to keep all the mitzvot like a woman, like a Jewish woman. And he still is in it because he didn't get his 砖讟专. Right. The

Does 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 apply to the eved?

question is only, does 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 apply? And why would it not? Why would it not? Because the whole reason of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 is you shouldn't marry a goyah. A person who is allowed to marry a goyah, why would it be asur for 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐? Since he since he's an eved, he's allowed to marry a goyah. Since he's an eved, he is allowed to marry a goyah, so what would be the sevara why would 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 be asur to him? Right. So It's not a tereifah food that is asur because it's tereifah, the Ribono Shel Olam says it's asur, so since you're an eved of a Yid, you're asur. But he has some shayachut to Yiddishkeit. Yeah, but that's the whole point. He has not only shayachut, he has more than a shayachut. But this specific aveirah doesn't apply. But why not? Because the whole reason why the chachamim said 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 is asur so you shouldn't come to marry goyot, but this guy is allowed to marry a goyah. If he's allowed to marry a goyah, so what would come? Don't do this because this might bring you to marry a goyah. So, it's not like half a Yid. You know, Every 注讘讚 讻谞注谞讬 you want to call him half a Yid. And it's Well, if you can't say percentage wise, or anything, it's just certain things apply, certain things don't? But this idea of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 should not apply, specifically. Why? Because the whole logic of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 is as a gezeirah not to come to associate with the goyim, and mimela you might marry a goyah. And But if he's allowed to marry a goyah, why would it be a issur of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐? If he marries Is he allowed to marry a Yid? No. No, at that point, he's not, not until he's given the 砖讟专 砖讞专讜专. Right. 砖讞专讜专, 砖讞专讜专, 砖讟专 砖讞专讜专. Right. Right, yeah, yeah. So, he's not given a 砖讟专 砖讞专讜专, so he's not a mamzer, so he can only marry a But he definitely is asur. So, the 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 should not be. That's what That's the Rebbe That is the whole point of the sichah here. Uh-huh. And that's why he said to him, not just stam a vort, \"Because I know you're not so frumah.\" He said to him, \"I know that you did What you went to the goyah last night.\" Which And you didn't do anything wrong. That's okay. That's okay. \"Therefore, I didn't care about kashering the knife for you because you are allowed to have 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐.\" Saying, \"I know you went to the goyah,\" only is saying that That you're allowed to marry a goyah. Yeah, that's And mimela, that's the reason why 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 would not apply. It's not like reprimanding him, or giving him a bad name, or so. Right, right, it's just saying a fact. He's saying the whole issur of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 is 诪砖讜诐 讘谞讜转讬讛谉 not to marry a goyah. And if you're allowed to marry a goyah, 讜讛讗 专讗讬讛 you did and you were takeh allowed to, so why should it be an issur of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐? And that's the point of the of of this sichah. Okay, so so, therefore, so, therefore, he didn't have to kasher the knife for him. Right, right. That's that simple. But, but, So, what So, they went And the question is, so what's the first lashon? The

Gemara's two reasons for the 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 prohibition

Gemara has two leshonot. One lashon says that he answered him, \"I'm not sure you're frum.\" The second lashon says, Therefore, it must be because you you had went to the 讙讜讬讛, 诪砖讜诐 讚讗讝诇 诇讙讘讬讛. Yeah. So the Rebbe explains based on this, because this what we just said is only the reason for 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 is you might marry a goyah. That's reasons, mimela by your this case it doesn't fit. What about the other, there's another reason why you shouldn't eat 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐: you shouldn't associate with the goyim, you might come to eat something treif. According to this reason, he would be asur. Okay, I'm not understanding. According to the reason of what reason? Sorry, what? There are two reasons, yeah, for why the Chachamim made an issur of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐. Right, not come to marry them. So one reason is that because if you eat their food that they cooked, you'll associate with them and you might come to marry a goyah. There's another reason: if you eat their food, you'll associate with them, you might come to eat treifah food, because if you go to their house, you'll eat their food. But aren't the treifah food and relations obviously intermingled? Yeah, but they're, but they're two separate things. If you say the reason is because you might come to marry them, that's the second part of the Gemara that he said, \"Why did I give you the knife without kashering it? Because you are allowed to marry a goyah, so there is no reason for you to have an issur of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐.\" But the first reason didn't give that. The first pshat in the Gemara was he just said, \"I don't know if you're frum.\" Why didn't he give that reason according to the first pshat? Well, he gave which reason, the first? That the reason is because you had, you went to the goyah last night? Why'd he give the first the second reason first? No, no, there's two different, there's a machloket in Gemara what the reason he gave. First opinion said First, yeah, others say. The first opinion in Gemara is that he just said, \"I don't know, I don't know you, I don't know if you're frum.\" Yeah. Second argument, others say that the reason he gave because you went to the goyah last night. So the

Rebbe chooses reasoning for the prohibition

Rebbe says these two is an argument in halacha, it's an argument what is the main reason why you're not allowed to eat 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐. If the main reason is because you shouldn't marry a goyah, then it's then the that's the second pshat in the Gemara. That's why he told this 注讘讚, \"You don't have that din because you're allowed to marry a goyah, and you married a goyah, went to a goyah like you're allowed to have a goyah, so mimela why should you be asur in 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐?\" The first one didn't give that reason. The first opinion holds that wasn't the reason. The reason was because they just didn't know if he's frum or not. Why didn't he give this reason? Because the first opinion says that he was asur to eat 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐. Because he didn't want him to eat treif? Because the reason is 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 you shouldn't come to eat treif, and he can't eat treif either. Oh, so, so So that's why he gave a different reason. The reason the Gemara says that I I just don't know if you're frum. I think you don't keep the mitzvot, so you you eat treif anyway. But why would he think that? So he said, \"You're an 注讘讚.\" That that that's done with the, that's the peshat of the Gemara. He says, \"I don't know you. If I don't know you, I think you're I mean, here one thing he has a reason for. The second one says he knows specifically. The first one says, \"No, not specific, I just don't think you're frum.\" Oh, so he's conjecturing as an Right, as yeah, as an 注讘讚 he assumed that the 注讘讚 wasn't frum. But why didn't he give the second reason? Because that wouldn't apply. Now, can an 注讘讚 eat treif? No. But if he's eating treif, he told him, \"If you're eating treif anyway,\" he took he took according to the first opinion, he thought that he's eating treif anyway. Even though there's a machloket, there's a connection between the two, isn't there? Isn't there some kind of There is a connection, but the she'eilah is what he gave. Yeah, okay.

Conclusion: knife not kashered and permissibility

Basically, according to the first opinion, the reason he gave him why he didn't kasher the knife for him is because, \"As far as I'm concerned, you eat treif. Why should I kasher the knife for you to eat treif?\" So, why would he say that, I'm asking? Because he looked at him and he looked, that's what, I mean, he says, \"To him, Shmuel, I know, I know he's a tzadik. You, I know nothing.\" \"I don't I don't really know you. I'm not I'm more than aware that you're that frum.\" \"I'm just frum, yeah, and I assume you're not.\" Right? Right. Uh-huh. Which means, \"I assume that you eat treif.\" That's That's the peshat around the Gemara. This is no But it should be a stumbling block, too. I mean, it's not nice. The guy was a goy. But he was an 注讘讚 of Mar Yehuda. Not him! The king was a goy. Oh, the king was a goy, yeah. But he was a he was a Trying to do the right thing, right! Jewish goy and he was Right! He's trying to do the right thing, but he said to him, \"I As far as I'm concerned, you're not frum, so therefore I let I didn't kasher for you.\" And the second one says, \"No, that's not what he said. He said not that I just think you're not frum, there's something specific I saw you do.\" So, why did the second reason say that? Because the second reason holds that 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 is mutar for an 注讘讚, so he learns very pashut. What did he say? \"You're allowed to marry a goyah. I know you went to the goyah last night, which no problem, but that's why there's no issur of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 for you.\" So there's no 讗讬住讜专 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐, therefore The whole issur of 讘讬砖讜诇 注讻讜状诐 is not to marry a goyah. If you're allowed to marry a goyah, what's the issur? So there's no issur. Now, why do we separate the two things that, okay, so he can marry a goyah, so there's no issur there,

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