Masada: Heroic Martyrdom, or a Violation of Halacha?
Masada: Heroic Martyrdom, or a Violation of Halacha?
Part of Jewish History · 29:03
A historical and halachic examination of mass suicide to avoid forced idolatry, comparing the Gemara's own version of a similar story to the Masada narrative, and whether Masada's defenders acted within halacha.
Audio Transcript
Such stories. Some of the stories are in the Gemara, but different a little bit. Aspasianos, ืืืื ื' ืกืคืื ืืช ืืืืืื ืืจืืฉืืื. Aspasianos filled up three shiploads of ืืืืื ืืจืืฉืืื, ืืฉืื'ื people from ืืจืืฉืืื, ืืืืฉืืื ืืงืืื ืฉื ืจืืื. And the plan was to take them with the ships to a place in Rome, and the purpose of taking them was for doing aveirot, aveirot. He had other men ready there, and they were going to do aveirot. ืขืืื ืืืืจื, so these men said, got up and said: ืื ืืืื ื ืฉืืืขืกื ืืื, ืืก ืืฉืืื, ืฉืืืขืกื ืืื ืืืงืืฉื that we got the Eibershter angry in the ืืืช ืืืงืืฉ, ืืื ืืฃ ืืืืฅ ืืืจืฅ, we should go to ืืืฅ ืืืจืฅ now and also do aveirot? ืืืจื ืื ืฉืื, so they said to the women that were on the same ships, the ships had men and women. So the men said to the women: ืืืงืฉืืช ืืชื ืืื? You want it? Are you ready to go to do what they want to do with you? ืืืจื ืืื, they said: ืืื. No, we're not going to do it. ืืืจื, so the men said: ืื ืฉืืืจืื ืืื, ืื that the women that this is a ืืจื, this is normal for them, ืืื ื ืจืชืขืืช, they don't want, ืื ื, for us, ืขื ืืืช ืืื ืืืื, since it's not normal. I mean nowadays the meshuga'neh world, but normally this is not a normal thing. ืชืืืจื, what they said, can we say: ืื ืืฉืืืืื ืื ื ืขืฆืื ื ืืื, if we're going to throw ourselves into the ืื, which is basically committing suicide in order not to come to this ืขืืืจื, ืื ื ืืืื ืืืื ืขืืื ืืื? They were
wondering to themselves, will we get olam haba? Maybe we will lose it, because we know somebody ืืืื ืขืฆืื ืืืขืช, someone who commits suicide, he loses his olam haba. So if we're going to be committing suicide, are we allowed or not? ืืื ืืืืจ ืืงืืืฉ ืืจืื ืืื ืืช ืขืื ืืื ืืคืกืืง ืืื, the Eibershter lit up their ืคืกืืง, lit up their eyes and the ืคืกืืง came to their mind. The ืคืกืืง says: ืืืจ ื' ืืืฉื ืืฉืื, ืืฉืื ืืืฆืืืืช ืื. I'm going to take you back, back meaning to say you'll get to ืขืืื ืืื, ืืืฆืืืืช ืื, even when you throw yourself in the ืื. Oh, so they got the ืจืื ืื ืืฉืืื that they should do it. So, he taytsh it: ืืืฉื ืืฉืื means ืืืื ืฉืื ื ืืจืืืช ืืฉืื, even if you put yourself between the teeth of the lions, the Eibershter will bring you back. ืืืฆืืืืช ืื, ืืืฉืืขื, ืคืฉืื. ืขืืื ืืช ืจืืฉืื ื ืืืืจื, so the first group of these people got up and they said, they quoted a pasuk: ืื ืฉืืื ื ืฉื ืืืืงืื ื, if we'll forget the name of ืืฉื, ืื ืคืจืืฉ ืืคืื ื ืืื ืืจ, and we'll, we should put our hands to the Aibershter, to, no, we would hold ourselves back from putting our hands to another god. Which means they used the pasuk that they're not going to get involved in other aveirot, ืืืฉืืืื ืขืฆืื ืืื, and they threw themselves into the ืื. ืขืืื ืืช ืฉื ืืื, the second group got up, ืืืืจื and said another pasuk: ืื ืขืืื, ืื ืขืืื ืืืจืื ื ืื ืืืื, on you, because of you we killed ourselves all day, always, ืืืฉืืืื ืขืฆืื ืืื, and they threw themselves in the ืื. ืขืืื ืืช ืฉืืืฉืืช ืืืืจื, the third group said, and quoted a pasuk: ืืื ืืืืงืื ืืืงืจ ืืืช, the Aibershter will look into this, ืื ืืื ืืืืข ืชืขืืืืืช ืื, he knows what goes on in our hearts, ืืืฉืืืื ืขืฆืื ืืื, and they threw themselves into the ืื. ืืจืื ืืงืืืฉ ืฆืืืืช ืืืืืจืช, the Ruach Hakodesh, that is the Aibershter, screaming and saying: ืขื ืืื ืื ื ืืืืื. This is what I'm crying for. Look at these Yidden, look at what they did. The
Gemara tells the story a little different. The Gemara tells the story they were not ืืืืื ืืจืืฉืืื, it's maybe talking about another story, the Gemara tells the story they were boys and there were girls on the, on the ship. And they were saying, they knew what they're going to take them for, so the girls were the ones that jumped off first, and the boys followed them. And a Bat Kol came out and he said, and the Bat Kol quoted a pasuk that, which showed that they get Olam Haba. So it was the girls that did it first. Well, then there is a people like to, there's a joke, they have a joke, the velt zogt a joke, there's a pasuk that says: ืขื ืืืช ืืชืคืื ืื ืืกืื ืืืื ืืขืช ืืฆืื ืจืง ืืฉืืฃ ืืื ืจืืื ืืืื ืื ืืืืขื. So they say that what happened with these women, these girls who came up ืืืขืื, what was their ืฉืืจ that they were first? They're going to come down ืืืื again and they're going to get married and they'll be the boss in the house. Because they, they're the ones that came first. That's the pshat ืขื ืืืช ืืชืคืื ืื ืืกืื, every person daven't, ืืขืช ืืฆืื, ืืฆืื it says ืืฆื ืืฉื ืืฆื ืืื, when you, when you get married, ืจืง ืืฉืืฃ ืืื ืจืืื ืืืื ืื ืืืืขื. He should not come into the water, he shouldn't get this. That's just a vortel, lehavdil. Then the Gemara says:
ืืืจืืื ืืก ืฉืืืง ืขืฆืืืช, ืืืจืืื ืืก ืืื ืฉืื ืืืืจื that's basically what it is, ืืืฉืื ืฉืืืฉ ืืฉืืจืืช, when he had a place where there were Yidden and he wanted to catch them, he put up three guards in three corners of the, of the city. ืืื ืืืืชื, one in a place called ืืืชื, ืืืื ืืืคืจ ืืงืืืื, one in ืืคืจ ืืงืืืื, ืืืื ืืืืช ืื, the ืืขืจ of, the forest of ืืืช ืื. ืืืจ, he said like this: ืืขืจืืง ืื ืืื ืืชืคืฉ ืื ืืื, anybody who, any Jew who will run away from this area will get caught in this area. ืื ืืื ืืชืคืฉ ืื ืืื, he'll run from here he'll get caught from here. By every entrance of running away he put down guards. ืืืื ืืคืืง ืืจืืืื, and he gave out an announcement, ืืืจืืืื, they announced, ืืืืจ, they said: ืื ืืืืช ืืืืืื ืืืชื, any place where there's a Jew you should come, ืืืืื ืืขื ืืืืชื ืืื ืืืื, the king wants to give you something. So they made an announcement that Jews should come. ืืืื ืืจืืืื ืืฉืืืขืื, and the announcements were announced, ืืืชื, ืืืชื ืืฆืืื ืื ืืืืืื. And what happened when they came? They captured the ืืืื, and they killed them. In other words, this was a trick that they had to make them think that they're going to get something. ืืื ืืื ืืืชืื, ืืืื ืืคืจืื ืืืื ื ืคืืชื ืืื ืื. That means, not ืคืชืื ืืื ืื, ืคืืชื means they convinced them, that they tricked them into coming. Shuv, m'hot vider gehey sn, shuv, az di idn zolen zich tsuzamenkumen. Later on they made another announcement, and they said whoever wants to make sure that the government should not take away your land, come to the king and he'll talk to you, he'll be, he'll take care of it. ืืืืื ืืืื ืืืืืื ืืืืชืืื ื ื ืื ื ืคืงืื, those that understood, that thought about it, didn't come. ืืืืื ืืื ืืืชืืื ื ื, those that didn't think about it, ื ืื ืกื, so they came, ืืืื ืืืืงืขืช ืืืช ืจืืืื. So they all came, a big group of ืืืื came to the ืืงืขื of ืืืช ืจืืืื. ืืืจ ืืงืืกืืจื ืฉืื, so he said to the king, to the to the general, Hadrianus, and the Midrash calls him ืฉืืืง ืขืฆืืืช, it's like another word for ืืื ืฉืื. So they all, a lot of people came to him. Az hobn zey, so he said to his generals, ืขื ืฉืื ื ืืืื ืงืจื ืืืืกืงื ืื, as long as it takes me to eat the corner of this loaf, ืืืจื ืคืืืงืข ืื, ืืืจื ืชืจื ืืื ืื, and the polke from this chicken, ืืืงืฉ ืืื ืืื ืืื ืืืฆื, I should be able to look for a ืืื and not find one. In other words, I want you to kill them right away as soon as as long, even less than it takes me to eat this piece of bread and this chicken. ืืืื ืืงืืคืื ืืืืื ืืช, so right away they got a whole bunch of legions surrounded the ืืืื ืืืจืืื, and killed them.
ืืืื ืืื ืืืงืข ืืืืื, the ืื, the blood went, ืขื ืฉืืืืข ืืืืคืช ื ืื, all the way the whole thing of blood came to this right river. ืจืื ืืงืืืฉ ืฆืืืืช ืืืืืจืช, and the ืจืื ืืงืืืฉ, the Oibershter is screaming, ืขื ืืื ืื ื ืืืืื, for this is what I'm crying. Then the Gemara says weiter, ืืืืื ืืืื ืืืืฉืื, those that did hide, well not everyone came, some went to hiding. ืืืืื ืืืืืื ืืฉืจ ืงืืืืืื? So they ate this meat of the people who got killed. In other words, they didn't have what to eat, so they ate their meat. ืืืื ืืื, this is, the stories are terrible, ืืืื ืืื ืืื ืืคืืง ืื ืืื ืืืื, one of the people there would, this his turn to go out, ืืืืืชื ืืืื, and would bring something to eat of this meat, ืืืืืื, and they would eat it. ืืืื ืื, one day, ืืืจ ืืืื ืืจ ื ืฉ ืื ื ื, nu, who's going to go today? ืื ืืฉืื ืืืื ืืืืชื, if he find something, ืืื ืื ื ื ืืื, we will eat. So one guy volunteered, he'll go. ืื ืื ืคืง, the one that went, ืืฉืื ืืื ืืืืื ืืงืืื, he found that his father was dead. ื ืกืืื, he took him, ืืืืจืื ืืืื ืกืืื ื, he took him, put him away, ืืืจืื, he hid him, ืืืื ืกืืื ื, put a siman on him, and he didn't want to bring him. I mean he didn't want that they to bring him, they should eat his father. ืขื, he went in, ืืืชื, he came, ืืืจ ืืื, he said, ืื ืืฉืืื ืืืื, today I didn't find anything. ืืืจืื, they said, ืืืื ืืจ ื ืฉ ืืืืจื, let somebody else go, ืื ืืฉืื ืืืื ืืืืชื ืืื ืื ื ื ืืืื, maybe someone else will find something. ืื ืื ืคืง ืืืื ืืจ ื ืฉ, this man who went out, ืืื ืืจืืืื, he smelled, smelled that body. ืืืคืฉ, he looked for it, ืืืฉืืืื ืืืืื ืืงืืื, he found this person that was dead, ืืืืชื, he brought him, ืืืืืื, and the people ate him. ืื ืืืืืื, the one that ate him, ืืืจ ืืื, he said, ืื ื ืืืืชื, thanks God, where did you bring this dead body from? ืืืจ ืืื, he said, ืื ืื ืืื ืืงืื, from this and this corner I found him. ืืืจ ืืื, this man says to him, ืื ืกืืื ืืื ืขืืื, was there any siman you had on him? ืืืจ ืืื ืกืืื ืคืืื ื. Yeah, I have a siman on him. ืขื ื, so this guy answered, ืืื ืืื, I'm his son. ืืืจ, he said, ืืื ืืื ืืืืื ืืืจื ืืืืฉืจืื ืืืืืื ืืื. Oy vey to the person who ate the basar of his father. ืืงืืื ืื ืฉื ืืืจ, this fulfilled the pasuk where it says, ืืื ืืืืช ืืืืื ืื ืื ืืชืืื, fathers will eat the children, and the pasuk continues and the children the fathers. This in Kinos? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also the stories in Kinos. That's what the Kinos shtikel says. ื ืฉืื ืจืืื ืืืช ืืืฉืื ืืืืืื, it's all part of it. ืืจืืื ืืก, ืฉืืืง ืขืฆืืืช, ืืจืืื ืืก, ืืื ืฉืื, ืืืื ืืฉืชื ืืืื ืชืฉืขื ืืื, this was years later, after the churban already, his wife gave birth on the night of Tisha B'Av. ืืื ืืฉืจืื ืืืืื, all the Yidden were sad, were ืืืืื. ืืืฉืชืชืง ืืืื ืืื ืืื, the kid died on Chanukah. ืืืจื ืืฉืจืื, the Yidden said to themselves, what should we do? ื ืืืืง ืื ืื ื ืืืืง? Should we light the candles or not light the candles? Because if we light the candle, what are they going to do? They're going to say that we're happy, that lighting candles is a siman of happiness, we're happy that he died. And what's going to, so what's going to happen here? That when he was born they were sad, when he died they were happy. ืืืจื, the Yidden said, ื ืืืืง, we're going to light, ืืื ืื ืืืขื ืืืืื ืขืื ืืืื, whatever is going to come on us, come on us. It's interesting, this is a re'ayah, a kushya against the Rambam. Rambam says you're not allowed to be moser nefesh, besides on the ืืณ ืขืืืจืืช. How did, this a mesirat nefesh? They knew they're going to kill them. Huh? The goyim are going to kill them because they're going to say that this is what they did. It was ืืืฉ ืกืื ืช ื ืคืฉืืช, you don't think so? Okay, we'll see what happens. ืืืืืงื, they did light. Huh? Nein, the Midrash doesn't bring it as a chesaron, doesn't bring it as an aveirah. And it's not also it's not it's not ืขืจืงืชื ืืืกืื ื, because he didn't make a gezeirah. ืขืจืงืชื ืืืกืื ื means if it's ืืฉืขืช ืืฉืื, even for a small thing, even for a color of a shoelace you have to go on mesirut nefesh. But anyway, this is ืืืืืงื, they lit candles. ืืืืื, they went, ืืืืจืื ืืืฉื ืืืฉ ืืืฉืชื ืฉื ืืืื ืืก, and they went, they spoke lashon hara to him. And they said, ืืืืื ืืืืื, these ืืืื, ืื ืืืืืช, when you gave birth, ืืื ืืชืืืืื, they were ืืืืื, they were sad. ืื ืืืช, when he died, when the child died, ืืืืืงื ืืืฆืื ืื, they lit candles. ืฉืืื ืืืชืื ืืืขืื, so she wrote a letter to her husband: ืขื ืืืช ืืืื ืืืจืืจืืื, instead of you fighting with the barbarians, fighting the war with them, ืชื ืืืืืฉ ืืืืื ืืืืื, go fight these ืืืื ืืืจืื ืื, that they're fighting against you. ืกืืืง ืืืืคืกื, obviously it was a way of war, so he went into a ship, ืืืฉื ืืืืชื ืืขืฉืจื ืืืืื. He assumed that it's going to take him 10 days to get there, get home. ื ืฉืืืชืื ืจืืื ืืืืืฉื ืืืืื. The wind was so good that it took him 5 days. ืืชื, he came, ืืืฉืืืื ืืขืกืงืื ืืืืื ืคืกืืงื, when he came he found that the ืืืื were ืคืื ืงื learning this ืคืกืืง, ืืืืื ืคืกืืงื: ืืฉื ืืฉื ืขืืื ืืื ืืจืืืง, the ืืืืืขืจืฉืืขืจ is going to bring, from the ืงืืืืช, in ืชืืืื, ืืฉื will bring you a nation from far, ืืงืฆื ืืืจืฅ, from some other end. ืืืฉืจ ืืืื ืื ืฉืจ, they'll come so fast like the eagle flies. ืืืจ ืืื, so he said to them: ืื ื ืืื ื ืฉืจื. I'm the eagle that the ืคืกืืง is talking about, ืืืฉืืืืช ืืืืชื ืืขืฉืจื ืืืืื, I thought to come in 10 days, ื ืฉืืืชื ื ืจืืื ืืืืืฉื ืืืืื, and the ืจืื the wind brought me 5 days. A ืกืืื, he took it as a ืกืืื ืื ืืฉืืื that he is the one that's supposed to do what it's saying in the ืชืืืื, that that nation will come and kill you all. ืืงืืคืื ืืืืื ืืกื ืืืจืืื. So the soldiers surrounded them and killed them all. The men. ืืืจ ืื ืฉืื, and he said to the women who were left over, ืืฉืืืขื ืืืืืื ืืกื, you should listen to my soldiers and be ready to do an ืขืืืจื with them. ืืื ืืื, if not, ืื ื ืขืืฉื ืืื ืืืจื ืฉืขืฉืืชื ืืื ืฉืื. If not, I'll do to you like I did to that to the men. ืืืจื, like they said: ืขืืื ืืืจืขืื ืืืจืขืื ืื ืืขืืืช ืืขืืืื, do with the with the lower ones what you did to the higher ones, meaning you can do to us whatever you want, do to us what you did to the men. ืืื ืืงืืคืื ืืืืื ืกื, right away the legions surrounded them, ืืืจืืื, they killed them. And it's ืื ืชืขืจืื ืืืื ืฉื ืืื ืืืืื ืฉื ืืื, the blood of the men and women got mixed together, ืืืื ืื ืืืงืข ืืืืื, it went, same thing, ืขื ืฉืืืืข ืืงืืคืจืืก ื ืืจ, until it came to this river. ืืจืื ืืงืืืฉ ืฆืืืืช ืืืืืจืช, and the ืจืื ืืงืืืฉ, the ืืืืืขืจืฉืืขืจ is screaming and saying, ืขื ืืื ืื ื ืืืืื. This is what I'm crying for. You see, we also see that they're allowed to go on mesirut nefesh. Now
there's certain there's shitos that say that women don't have to, it's not ืืืจื ืืื ืืขืืืจ to this aveirah, even though it's ืืืืื ืขืจืืืช, but the but we see well, so there are two ืกืืจืืช, or because by goyim there is no no ืืืจื ืืื ืืขืืืจ, or because a woman is only ืงืจืงืข ืขืืื, she doesn't do a maaseh. So the Rosh says that if you don't do a maaseh you don't have to go on mesirut nefesh on these three ืขืืืจืืช. The Rosh gives an example: if someone tells you, kill somebody or I'll kill you, you have to let yourself get killed. But if someone says, don't do anything, stand there and allow yourself to be pushed and I'll throw you down on a baby and it will kill the baby, then you don't have to go on mesirut nefesh. So here again according to the Rambam wherever there's no din of ืืืจื ืืื ืืขืืืจ, you're not allowed to, so how were they allowed to do it? It's a kashya on the Rambam. This I have a teirutz. I have a I have a chidush, that the Rambam holds that even though he says by other ืขืืืจืืช there is no ืืืจื ืืื you're not allowed to, by any ืขืืืจื which is in the category of ืืืจื ืืื ืืขืืืจ, ืืื ืืื for a specific side reason you don't, then the Rambam is modeh that you're allowed to. This is be'emet an ืขืืืจื of ืืืืื ืขืจืืืช, and there is ืืื ืืื specifically because you don't do a maaseh, so here maybe the Rambam holds. Yeah. A goy. A shaila if a goy is ืืืืื ืขืจืืืช. Say it again? So they were allowed to go on, so, yeah, I want to say that even according to the Rambam they were allowed to because it's they're going on mesirut nefesh in an ืขืืืจื which is in the category of of a ืืืจื ืืื ืืขืืืจ. Huh? Yeah. Yeah, but that could be avodah zarah. What? That could be avodah zarah. You don't know, maybe it was for for avodah zarah. You're asking a different shaila. Is there a shaila? No, no, the big machloket in the poskim whether they were allowed or not. No, but you see here they threw threw themselves in the water. They killed them- The shaila is, when you say yeihareg ve'al ya'avor, the shaila is can you go and kill yourself before? Yeihareg ve'al ya'avor means if the guy says, \"Do the aveirah or I'll kill you,\" let him kill. Can you go and prevent it from killing? So, we see in times in history, a lot of times, not only in Masada, by other places where we find where people killed their own children, people Why? Because the goyim were coming, and they knew they're going to force them to to If they went to a rav, they would say no. What about in Masada? They were they were So the shaila if
they're allowed. Al pi halacha, could be? No. Looking at it as an inyan In Yiddish, it was a inyan, but to say al pi halacha they did right? How do you know? Not everyone says that. In Masada, it's a big discussion in the poskim, whether in Masada they did the right thing when they killed themselves. The ones who are religious, they say that it wasn't No, those that say they wasn't, can say, but some say they were. Some say they were. What I'm saying, if anyone went to a rav at that time, then the rav would have told him no. What did What did Shaul Hamelech do? Killed himself. Killed himself. Because of this. That wasn't an aveirah. What? That wasn't an aveirah considered. Other things considered, not this. But lomir gein vayter. ืืขืฉื ืืฉื ื ืฉื ื ืฆืืืงืื. These guys also decided that they wouldn't kill. They were afraid. The children, yeah. Yeah, so they killed them Yeah, and then they each one killed That's, I remember that they killed the children and they were not saved, there was, yeah? Somebody was saved. Someone ran away. Somebody lived to tell the story. Where Yosifun tells the story, same thing happened.
When they caught Yosifun, the way he tells it, when they caught him with his group, when they went in, so when they hid, down stay down they hid them, Yosifun, Yosifun, the one that wrote this Yosifun. Which by the way I saw they printed lately, I'm not going to tell you where I saw it, but they printed a ืคืชืง from the Rebbe. This is the first time I saw this ืคืชืง, ืืชื ืื of the Rebbe, which is a very interesting ืคืชืง, mamash an interesting ืคืชืง. By someone asked the Rebbe, what's the opinion about Yosifun? Like he's a By Yosifun, Yosifun, Yosifun, what's our what's the opinion? So the Rebbe writes like this, ืืชื ืื: ืจืื ืืืขืืช, there are many ืืขืืช ืื ืืืข him. Okay. Baderech klal, you should know, the freye are ืืฉืืืฆืื ืืืชื. The more fray you are, they criticize him. The more frum you are, ืืฉืืืื ืืืชื. That he tried to help the Yidden to be ืืืื ืืืืจืืช ืจืขืืช from the from the Romans against the Yidden. So the Rebbe writes, it seems like from the Rebbe, and that he was trying to be ืืืื ืืืืจืืช ืจืขืืช. That's why he did it. So it's not only zechut, it's just the thing what he did, and the Rebbe says ืืฉืืืื, and then the Rebbe writes on the side, another, because the Rebbe writes with numbers, on another number the Rebbe writes that the Sefer Yosippon is found in many many homes. Really? So the Rebbe, so it's a chidush, because this it was known that it's very controversial. He was definitely he was definitely a traitor. The she'eilah why he did it. Did he do it because l'poal, there's a lot of things that we know only from him. And Rashi in Gemara brings that about reading reading Yosippon and that you're allowed to. It doesn't mean that that Rashi says that he is a good guy, but it seems from this ืคืชืง, this is mamash it was printed two weeks ago. Just happened to be printed. But there happened there they take killed each other and the only one that was saved was him. He was the last one and he went out and he was saved. Then later he went with the Romans and he was on their side, but l'poal, it seems like he did it, whatever he did it in order, and they take tried to stop, he tried to stop the ืืืจืื ืืืช ืืืงืืฉ, according to what he writes. He tried to convince them not to destroy the ืืืช ืืืงืืฉ. Wouldn't he have to write things to that to make sure the Romans don't But you see, he writes he tried to stop the churban. Why should he write that? He should write better for them. He wrote, he wrote about the whole revolt of the Yidden, I mean. Certain things we wouldn't know in Chazal is not mentioned. There are certain things he writes which is different than Chazal. Different. That's why there's a she'eilah. Historian? Flavius Josephus. He writes about Masada? He's the only one who writes about Masada. The whole metziut of Masada is not in no Midrash, nowhere in Chazal, and they
didn't know if it's true or not. Then they found it, then. They found it mamash the way he says. Exactly the way they found, they followed what he says and they found, they dug it up and it's exactly the way he describes it. They and not only that, the way he describes the places and the shul and the mikveh and and all the different places there and the the storage of the wheat, they found they even found wheat there. Was preserved from the heat, it was preserved, they even found it. Well, it's interesting. So, he wasn't lying. But there's certain things he writes which is Chazal write differently. ืืื he writed Vespasian, he told Vespasian he's gonna he's gonna become Caesar. He's gonna become the the Caesar. In in Gemara it says Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai, but maybe it's a true story, maybe it's both true, I don't know. Okay, and before that you find in Midrash also things somewhat different than the Gemara. But for this story we're gonna learn now, maybe it's another the same story, but it's a different name. Let's learn it. The sefer says that a controversial, but the frumer you are the more frume people are praising rather than criticizing. The fraye criticize him, and the frume praise him. That's what the Rebbe is saying. The Rebbe is not And then he says that there are people other people have it in their house. In other words, nisht No. No. Why? That he No, he's a traitor. See, by them they don't look at the inner ืืืื ืืช. You know how the fraye look? They look at the more at the at the not at the part of it. They look at the ืืืืื, with the government and the fight, and he was a traitor. No, I think that what what he wrote, the way he describes himself, so the Rebbe says the fraye ืืฉืืืฅ him. ืืื ืฆืื ืืื ืฆืื No, they take for granted, they take as true. No, no. So, we don't know exactly was who? Philo. Philo? Yeah. No. Okay. Sure, so I'm not saying Don't believe what they write. Saying, did he do the right thing or not? Was he a good guy or a bad guy? So, they
claim he was a bad guy, he was a traitor. He was like Benedict Arnold. He was a traitor. Oh, a traitor. No, not Hellenism, Yiddishkeit. That's Yiddishkeit. Here talking he was a traitor against they were the people the people that tried to defend Jerusalem were fraye themselves. They were biryonim. They were fraye. And he was against them. Yeah, they were fighting, they wanted to fight, and the ืืืืื said not to. I'm not so sure. Yeah, I don't think so. Maybe, maybe, I don't know. In my mind always I thought these biryonim were biryonim, were I don't know. Okay, maybe not, maybe takeh is. I don't I doubt it. ืืืืื I don't know. Possible. a ืืฆืื ืชืคืืืื, ื ืืฉื ืชืคืืืื. I think the guy who I think the guy who worships avodah zarah puts on tefillin, the tefillin is always tefillin, unless he puts on ืชืคืืืื ืืฉื ืขืืืื ืืจื. But if a guy puts on tefillin, also does avodah zarah, so he's not tefillin is tefillin, and he keeps Shabbos it's Yeah, we can keep Shabbos we're still something else. Oh, yeah? No, I have around :50. We're gonna davenen :39 and then we're finished, because I thought it was 45 you have. Yeah.
ืืขืฉื ืืฉื ื ืื ื ืฆืืืง ืืืื, the story with two sons of ืฆืืืง ืืืื, he's a ืืื ืืืื, ืฉื ืฉืื they were both captured, ืืื ืืืจ ืืืื ื ืงืื one's a boy, one's a girl. ื ืคื ืื ืืกืื ืืื, ืืื ืืกืื ืืื ืืื ืืกืื ืืื. One officer took one, got one, got him and the one got her. ืืื ืื ืืฆื ืืื ื ืื ืชื ืื ืืืจ. This guy, this officer who had him, when he went to a ืืื ื and he had to pay the ืืื ื for her ืื ืืช, he paid her with with an ืขืื, he gave her the the boy. ืืืื ืื ืืฆื ืื ืืื ื ืื ืชื ืื ื ืงืื ืืืื. And the other one went to a store, had to buy wine, so instead of paying with a man instead of paying with money he paid gave her gave the the guy the the girl. ืืงืืื ืื ืฉื ืืืจ it fits to the pasuk where it says, ืื ืชื ื ืืืื ืืืื ื ืืืืืื ืืืจื ืืืื ืืืฉืชื. The pasuk says this. ืืืชืจ ืืืืื, days later, ืืชื ืืืื ืื ืืชื ืืืืื ืืืื ืืื ืืื ื ืืืืจ ืืื, so once, well he came to her, once came to the other, and he said to him, ืืืืื ืืืืช ืื ืคืื ืืชื ืืืืื ืืืื ืืืื ืืืื, you know, this guy says like this, I have an ืขืื which looks like a ืฉืคืื that you got. ืืืช ืืื ืื ืืกื ืื ืืื, let's marry one to another, ืืื ืืืืชืืืื ืืื the children that come ืืื ืืืื so it will be both of us. ืืืจ ืืื ืื, so he says, well, fine. ืื ื ืกืืื, they got, they took him, they put them ืืื ืืืชื in one house. ืืืืื ืืืชื, she started crying, the girl started crying. ืืืจ ืื ืืืื, The boy said to her, \"ืืื ืืช ืืืืื, why are you crying?\" ืืืจื ืืื, she said to him, \"ืืื ืืืื, I shouldn't cry? ืืืจืชื ืืืื ื ืจืื, I'm a daughter of a ืืื ืืืื, ืืืื ืืืชื ืกืื ืืขืืื, I should get married to an ืขืื?\" ืืืจ ืื, he said to her, \"ืืจืชื ืืืื ืืช, whose daughter are you?\" ืืืจื ืืื, she said, \"ืืจืชื ืืฆืืืง ืืื ื, ืฆืืืง ืืื ืืืื.\" ืืืจ ืื, he said, \"ืืืืื ืืช ืฉืจืื, where did you live?\" ืืืจื ืืื, \"ืืฉืืง ืคืืื ื, in this stop, in this address.\" ืืืจ ืื, \"ืื ืกืืื ืืืื? The door is hanging, do you have a ืกืืื on the house, yeah?\" ืืืจื ืืื, \"ืกืืื ืคืืื ื, this ืกืืื.\" ืืืจ ืื, \"ืืืื ืืื ืืื, ืืืืช, did you have a brother or a sister?\" ืืืจื, she said, \"ืืืื ืื ืื ืื, I had one brother, ืืืืื ืื ืื ืฉืืื ืืืชืืคื, he had a certain wart on his shoulder. ืื ืืชืื ืืื ืกืคืจื, when he'd come from school, ืื ื ืืืื ืืื, I would take it off, I guess, I would do something to it, ืืื ืฉืงื ืืื, I would kiss him.\" ืืืจ ืื, he said to her, \"ืื ืืืืชืื ืืืืช ืืืช, so if you see it now you'd recognize it?\" ืืืจื ืืื, she said, \"ืืื, yeah.\" ืืื ืืจืืื, he picked up, he uncovered his shoulder, ืืืืืื ืืื ืืืื, and then they showed her, ืืืื ืืืคืคืื ืืื ืืืื, they started hugging, ืืื ืฉืงืื ืืื ืืืื, and they're kissing, ืขื ืื ืคืงืช ื ืฉืืชืืื, until their neshamah left. ืืจืื ืืงืืืฉ ืืฆืจืืช ืืืืืจืช: ืขื ืืื ืื ื ืืืืื. The Gemara says the same story, but there's a, whose daughter? What does the Gemara say? Tzadok Kohen Gadol. It's a, it's mamash a similar story. So they didn't recognize each other right away. Why? Because, because he was away in yeshivah, maybe, when he was older. I don't know if I could tell. In the, in the Gemara it seemed like it was one night and it was dark, there they didn't see each other. And it got light, they recognized each other. But here, you need simanim. The neshamah left. Neshamah left, right? Neshamah left them. What did you say? There they put them into one room. It was dark at night. Then they were crying, this, till it got early morning, it got light, so they recognized each other. Huh? When was Tzadok HaKohen? Oh, they, they were sold, many years later they found each other. Yeah, yeah. But they were, all the same, could be they were older. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two beers.
ืืขืฉื ืืืจืื ืืช ืืืืชืืก, the story with Miriam bas Baisus, ืฉืงืืืฉื Yehoshua ben Gamla, Yehoshua ben Gamla married her. Yehoshua ben Gamla was a fine guy. We know Yehoshua ben Gamla from, he made up the school systems. ืืืื ืื ืืืื ืืืืืช ืืื ืืืื, and the ืืื made him ืืื ืืืื. ืื ืื ืกื ืคืขื ืืืช ืืจืืืช, one time she came to see, ืืืืจื, she said, \"ืืื ืืืจืื, ืืฉืงืืจื ืืืื ืืืืคืืจืื ืืืืช ืืืงืืฉ, in Yom Kippur that the ืืื ืืืื reads in the Torah in the ืืืช ืืืงืืฉ, and I want to go see how he does it.\" ืืืฆืืขื ืื ืืคืืืืืช ืืคืชื ืืืชื ืขื ืคืชื ืืืช ืืืงืืฉ, and they were very rich, so they made like a, they put down carpets from her house to the ืืืช ืืืงืืฉ, ืืื ืฉืื ืืชืืคืืื ืจืืืื, she shouldn't catch a cold, her feet shouldn't get... Red carpet. That's carpet. ืืฃ ืขื ืคื ืื ืืฆืื ืืืืฉืช, and she still got sick. ืืฉืืช ืืืืฉืข ืืขืื, when Yehoshua, her husband died, ืคืกืงื ืื ืืืืื ืกืืชืื ืืื ืืื ืืื. ืกืืชืื ืืื, they passed them two ืกืื of wine every day. For drinking? ืืืืจืฉ, ืืชื ืื ืืื ืคืืกืงืื ืืื ืืืฉื, we learned in Ketubot that you don't give a woman wine when you have to give her food. ืื ืื ืจื ืืื ืืืจ ืืฉืื ืื ืืช, and you don't give it because she could use it for ืื ืืช, like it says in, pasuk. And this was not for that. ืืจื ืืืืืง, ืจื ืืืกืฃ ืืืจ ืืชืืฉืืืื, it wasn't to drink, it was to put into the food. ืืชื ื, it says, ืื ืืืชื ืื ืืงื ืคืืืชืื ืืืขืฉื ืืืื ืืืืกืืคืื ืื ืขื ืืืื ืืชืื. It says also that if a woman is, is, is nursing, then they give her more ืืืื ืืช. ืืืฉืื ืื ืืืกืืคื? What do they give her? They give her wine, because wine, ืืจืื ืืช ืืืื. ืืืืจ ืืืขืืจ ืืจืื ืฆืืืง: ืืจืื ืื ืืื ืื ืื ืจืืืชืื, I saw, ืฉืงืืฉืจื ืฉืขืจื ืืืื ืื ืกืืกืืื ืฉื ืขืจืืืื, that I saw they tied up her hair in the tails of a horse, tail of a horse of the ืขืจืืืื, ืืืื ืืจืืฆืื ืืืชื, and the horse ran and pulled her, ืืืจืืฉืืื ืืขื ืืื. ืืงืจืืชื ืขืืื ืืคืกืืง, I called the pasuk: ืืจืื ืื ืืืขื ืืื. The pasuk says the soft one and the, one who did not, will not... Huh? Till then there was no such thing. Every father had to worry about their own child, and he made up the idea of melamdim. That's a charter school idea, build... Yeah.